liberal Christianity

I've actually always considered them synonymous .

As for universalism, it doesn't really go hand-in-hand with liberalism. It's an unusual doctrine that can show up among liberals and conservatives.

Joshua

 

A conservative what? A conservative liberal?

 

My two cents: Allowing only conservative Christianity is a form of legalism.

 

Rev. G.

I did a study of universalism a few years ago, and you'd be surprised. There are some socially and politically conservative Christians who do hold to varying forms of universalism. It can happen.

Even Origen postulated a type of universalism (that is that a God of love would not design a punishment that was not ultimately redemptive in nature).

Joshua

 

So all non-Jews in before Jesus' first advent were lost? And all of the billions who have never heard the gospel since then are lost? I am not saying that definitely some of these are saved, but I don't think we have a right to limit God's grace in that way.

Romans 2:14-16(NASB)
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,
16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Romans 2:25-26(NASB)
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

Ken

[ November 20, 2002, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

I agree. They believed God without hearing the Law of Moses. And what about after Jesus came? What about those who believe God without hearing the gospel?

Ken

 

Yes, he even went so far as to say that the devil would be redeemed. I've read Origen. However, his unorthodox views were not only rejected by men such as Augustine and Jerome, but fought against. Origen's universalism has never been accepted by the Church as "orthodox."

Rev. G

 

So, even if they believe God like Abraham, without ever hearing the gospel, you believe they are lost?

Ken

[ November 20, 2002, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

Are you a doctrines of grace(nickname Calvinism) believer?

Ken

 

Ken

 

The obvious answer is to understand the doctrine(s) and determine if it is true or false.

You don't know it is against scripture unless you study it and read what scripture has to say.

If you think you already understand all truth without having to look at scripture, you don't really believe the Bible very much or trust that the Spirit will guide you into all truth.

 

This is a VERY good statement! I agree! I have studied the cults, not because I wanted to join them, but because I wanted to win them over from their position.

Rev. G

 

What does this have to do with what Joshua is saying?

From your tone, I perceive that anyone who doesn't come up with the same interpretations of scripture as yourself is unbiblical and a "liberal," and by liberal you mean "wrong." Once you state it this way, the labels cease to function in any way outside your narrowly defined fantasy world. Not to meantion the arrogance involved.

When I read the gospels, I don't get the impression that Jesus was a religious fundamentalist. He radically questioned the accepted interpretations of the religious life for his time. This isn't to say that he threw out the baby with the bath, but he was no Al Mohler either (by "Al Mohler" I mean "wrong" ).