A Fellow Member

Most of us here have already formed an opinion of what this man does, & why we feel he frequents this board. While it is not up to me to judge whether he is a christian or not, I do feel sympathy for the souls he has steered away from biblical truth. While we cannot attack him on a personal level, he is allowed to attack every one of us with his dung-heap posts.

 

Amen ...amen 100 times

 

For the curious, here's the response I sent to a BB Member who e-mailed me to find out if I really did come to the defense of an adult bookstore

Yes, you can blame my wife for that one. As coordinator for Progressive Georgia of Clergy, I get invitations to protests/marches/etc. all the time. When that particular one came from members of the Gwinnett County Democratic Party, I was ambivalent about it. I think that much of pornography perpetuates unhealthy stereotypes of women (the interview done with me in the local paper made that clear).

Nevertheless, I strongly resented the propoganda that the Christian Coalition folks were circulating about the business and about Christian views of sexuality in general. Ultimately, a legitimate business has a right to sell legal products; and the same protections that allow them to function in the community also protect our churches. The whims of the community or political sea changes should not oppress the free flow of information; be it sexually explicit literature or religious writings. (For the record, I do not include pedophilia, bestiality, etc. in the category of "free flow of information" since they have a terribly destructive effect on the most vulnerable members of our society.)

I was content, however, to just grump around the house about the Christian Coalition literature until my wife shoved me out of bed the morning of the protest and told me to go there to support the folks coming to support the store. I still think it was a questionable decision because I don't think that everything sold in an adult book store is healthy, uplifiting, or positive; but I feel the same way about our local Borders bookstore (which carries the _Left Behind_ series and other filth). Nevertheless, I think that I did make some very positive connections with some of the staff and protestors who came in support of the business. They were able to, at the very least, see that not all Christian ministers are represented by the Christian Coalition.

Thanks for asking,

Joshua

 

I wouldn't attend your church even if it was the last one on the earth. You call yourself a servant of the Lord and go and support the trash that destroys homes, marriages, lives...etc. What ever happened to calling sin sin and being seperate from the world?

That makes me want to puke!!!

I Timothy gives the qualifications of a pastor. It looks as though some need to read over them so they can resign from their position.

"For be ye Holy, for I am Holy."

 

Joshua,
I imagine you would have marched to support slavery, too, when it was legal, eh?

Has it occurred to you that there is a difference between what is merely legal and what is actually right? Do you really think that supporting pornography does anything positive for anyone? I ended up with a son in a juvenile institution because of it. Others have been murdered and raped in connection with it. Pornography promotes fantasies that rip up marriages and lives.

Your stand on behalf of their right to promulgate that kind of destruction because it is legal is most certainly not in line with the Bible. The marriage bed is to be kept sacred. Pornography fights against that.

Paul wrote to Titus, "You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love, and in endurance." (Titus 2:1-2). Pornography actively fights all of that.

Paul also wrote, in Philippians 4:8, "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is admirable -- if anything is excellent or praiseworthy -- think about such things."
You think pornography helps people do that?

By the way, Adam blamed his wife, too, when confronted by God.

[ March 18, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Helen ]

 

Chris, unquestionably it is Christ who leads me to support and affirm homosexuality. The defense of the adult bookstore - well I still view that as a questionable decision that did more good than harm. I did not feel a clear leading from God (after much prayer on the issue). I was very careful to make it clear that I was not there supporting everything that was sold in the store; but that neither was I make the kind of blanket rejection of the store employees and their customers that the vocally hateful "Christian" protestors were.

For the record, I continue to humble myself before God in prayer and study (as well as accountability to my peers and my congregation - who knew about this incident). I make mistakes, and I do my best to admit them promptly.

Joshua

P.S. Here's the article from the Gwinnett Daily Post on the day following the protest:

What’s love got to do with it?
Peachtree Corners residents turn out to protest Love Shack II
By Jim Kvicala
Staff Writer

NORCROSS — Needing a bigger home to accommodate his family, Don Speese moved his family to Peachtree Corners four years ago from Snellville.

“We were looking for the best schools and an area with a strong sense of community,” he said.
That strong sense of community was what had Speese standing in the rain on the shoulder of Peachtree Parkway yesterday with a sign reading “Do you want to be seen here?”
Speese was one of dozens of protesters who picketed Saturday morning against the second Love Shack adult video store to be opened in Gwinnett County.

Carrying placards with messages like “No porn near family shopping” and “Bet your mama is proud of you,” the pickets circulated back and forth in front of the Love Shack’s parking lot while some protesters used video cameras to film vehicles coming in and out. There were even protest signs in Spanish: “Porn destruir vida.”

Speese said as soon as he heard about the protest, he knew he’d be involved in an effort to move it out of the neighborhood.
“I knew the day would come when I would be out here carrying a sign and exercising my First Amendment rights,” Speese said.

A smaller but equally determined group exercised their First Amendment rights on the Love Shack’s behalf, including Tucker resident and self-professed pornographic video producer Mike South.

“I’m just a good ole boy having fun,” said South.

With an adult video production business that produces a six-figure annual income, South admitted his interests are somewhat intertwined with those of the Love Shack. Even if the Love Shack didn’t sell his videos (which it does), South said he still would have come out to protest.

“They want to regulate what I do in the privacy of my home,” he said. “The same end of the pencil that erases my free speech gets rid of their freedom of religion.”

Peachtree Corners resident Kirk Jundt, who identified himself as a Libertarian, was there protesting against the Love Shack, but said he was less angered by Cornetta than he was by the inability of the Gwinnett County Commission to pass appropriate ordinances to keep the Love Shack out of his
neighborhood.

“We should have good enough legislators to set up proper zoning laws ... this is stupid,” he said. “I think (county Commission Chairman) Wayne Hill owes people an explanation.”
Meanwhile, Jundt finds himself having to explain to his children why he won’t take them to the new video store near their house.

“My eight-year-old saw the banner sign advertising ‘toys’ ... he wanted to know if it was a new toy store,” Jundt said.

Another Libertarian presence at the demonstration was David Corr, who identified himself as chairman of Bibb County’s Libertarian Party.

Wearing a “Rock out censorship” T-shirt, Corr said he thought the free market should determine whether the Love Shack was welcome in Peachtree Corners.

“I just don’t believe it’s right for the government to tell adult citizens what they can and can’t see,” he said.

Lynda Hurdsmith of Norcross carried a sign neatly summing up her view: “No to porno.”
Hurdsmith and her husband Jerry have grown children, so their protest was more to protect their grandkids, she said.

“It’s one of those things that takes your spirit away ... pornography and drugs are in the same category,” she said.

A somewhat incongruous presence among the counter-protesters was a reverend wearing his black suit and white collar.

The Rev. Joshua Villines, a credentialed minister, said he was there because he was pro-choice, not pro-sex shop.

“Human sexuality is much more complex than these people are giving it credit for ... sticking it in a brown paper bag under the bed is the wrong way to go,” he said.

Villines said he was concerned that protesters and media have assumed that all “people of faith” would be against sexually explicit materials. He also expressed concerns about suppressing such materials.
“Freedom of religion means free speech ... the U.S. Supreme Court says healthy expressions of sexuality are inside the boundaries of free speech,” he said.

Beginning around 10 a.m., the protest and counter-protest continued even as a light rain began to fall. Most left after local television news crews obtained video for their noon broadcasts

Love Shack owner John Cornetta was highly visible during the protest, one of his trademark cigars tucked in his mouth, as pickets walked by carrying signs calling him “John Pornetta.”
Cornetta said afterward he thought the protest had improved business on what would otherwise have been a slow Saturday morning.

Cornetta said he holds his opponents’ rights to free speech to be as important as his own, but nothing they can do or say will drive him away.
“This is my job ... my livelihood,” he said.
Cornetta has carefully cultivated an image of turning the other cheek to the community opposition. During Saturday’s protest, he had Love Shack employees making bologna and cheese sandwiches in case any of the protesters got hungry.

At the same time, however, Cornetta had several individuals posted outside the store wearing black t-shirts with “SECURITY” printed on them in white.

He had attempted to hire an off-duty Gwinnett police officer to work security, he said, but was told the department couldn’t allow it because of the ongoing lawsuit between the county and Cornetta.

State Rep. Tom Rice, one of the organizers of the anti-Love Shack protest for the United Peachtree Corners Civic Association, thought Saturday’s event was a big success and plans more.

“He’s committed to stay,” said Rice. “We’re committed to see him go elsewhere.”

 

Settle down, Beenieboy, the only church he ever pastored fired him when they discovered how hetrodox he was. He is now harmlessly out of the way where he has little influence to propagate his heresy.

 

Posted by Joshua:

unquestionably it is Christ who leads me to support and affirm homosexuality

I think maybe you don't know who it is that leads you. Christ would not lead you in a direction that contradicts His word.

 

Out of the way? I think not! Here, on the internet, he has a bigger platform than he ever did before from which to spew his heresy!

 

Joshua, the Mormons say Christ is leading them, too. So do the Jehovah's Witnesses.

So evidently there is more than one Christ, because I can guarantee to you that the Jesus Christ they claim is not the one I know; the one of whom the Bible speaks.

So when you say Christ is leading you, all I can do is wonder "Which Christ?"

 

Isaiah 5:20-30

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight ! 22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: 23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. 25 Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. 26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly: 27 None shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the latchet of their shoes be broken: 28 Whose arrows are sharp, and all their bows bent, their horses' hoofs shall be counted like flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind: 29 Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it. 30 And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of the sea: and if one look unto the land, behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof.

[ March 18, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Joy ]

 

Well said, Joy, except you didn't say that.

Of course, I think that is the part of Isaiah that came from the prophet's own musings, not really from revelation from God. Wait a second, I forgot, it didn't even come from the prophet's own musings but rather from a sixth century redactor who was redacting the seventh century redactor's work who was merely compiling the various oral traditions of Isaianic thought that had been passed down for several decades before that. Therefore, while that passage is a beautiful and shocking section, it has no real weight because Isaiah ... no wait, the Isaianic redactor ... never intended it to be understood as true.

For those for whom this doesn't make sense, don't fret. Joshua will understand it ... though he will not like my presentation of it. Oh wait, something Joshua doesn't like? Maybe I should be selling porn instead.

This issue takes the cake IMO. Joshua and I have agreed on only a couple of things I think, though I can't remember what they were. I think his theology is abominable if it can even be called theology. It is internally incoherent. However, I have always appreciated his gentle and kind manner. Here, I think the test has been passed ... or failed as the case might be. This is not, as Joshua would have us believe, an issue of free speech or what one group of churches might think of human sexuality. This is an issue of morality and depravity. The two have faced off head to head and Joshua came down on one side very clearly. The Bible is not his guide (in case there was any doubt); he is guided by his own pragmatic and unprincipled mind. He chases what is politically correct and convenient in spite of what Scripture says.

Make no mistake about it. Joshua did not stand for biblical truth that day. He betrayed it, just as he has with most of his theology.

 

Joshua,

I'm praying for you.

I don't mean that in a condescending or judgemental way.

It sounds like you're trying to do the right thing and, even if I question your judgement in this instance, I've got to respect that.

Sometimes, you just try your best and it doesn't turn out so well but keep your chin up.

Mike

 

Well, at this point I have to say nothing suprises me about Joshua.
I do not believe supporting the degrading of womwen through pornography, or the destruction of families with pornography can be following Chriat.
I do not think that supporting anything God has spoken against(homosexuality) is follow the one we call Lord.
When Jesus is Lord, our lives will fall into place with His will, God's holy written word.