For Whom Did Christ Die? - C.H. Spurgeon

All people will not be saved by God, not because of some impediment in Him but because of the selfwill in humankind. After all, He paid for the sins of the whole world. [John 1:29] I agree with the Baptist of Scripture who declares that God has paid for the sins of everyone in this cosmos. It is not His fault when people effectuate their will in the wrong way.

The payment for the sins of the world has been paid, if you will, to the Father; only the yielding of the will through faith can incline God to place the sinner as a son or daughter of the Living God. Life is a kind of probation in which God gives human beings the opportunity to receive His Divine life; to refuse or neglect Him is to place oneself among the forever, lost.

Dr. Berrian

 

This is most certainly true.

But herein lies the problem for you. If all the sins of the world have been paid for once to a just God, can that just God exact a second payment for those same sins? Illustration: If your wife pays the household phone bill, can the phone company come and exact a second payment from you?

 

kjv611only,

Your points are well taken. Hebrews 10:29 offers, as you say, evidence that God is not preoccupied with damning the non-elect, as Calvinists have been taught to think.

God promises punishment to all sinners who have despised the blood of the New Covenant. In effect they have looked on the covenant as of no count or an unholy entity. There is no question that the Triune God was deeply, troubled by those who not only despised the covenant but the Holy Spirit.

In this passage, as well as all others, we do not find God being totally enthralled with turning sinners into Hell. On the other hand, we find Him warning the lost people. This speaks most clearly against God's autocratic dealing with His creation that He started back in the Garden of Eden.

By refusing the covenant these sinners were despising the Holy Spirit who offers grace as His everlasting gift to humanity. In theology we call this Resistible Grace in counterdistinction to Calvinism's Irresistible Grace.

God bless forever, Biblical, grammatical--literal interpretation of His most sacred Words.

Respectfully,

Dr. Berrian

 

Isaiah 46:9-10 (AV 1611)

"Remember the Former things of old: for I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from the ancient times the things that are not yet done saying my councel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure"

And what is his pleasure Larry? what is his counsel that is talked about there in the Context?who is being expressly addressed?

No I don't think you can use this verse to support the idea that God only chose a few people for salvation. I don't get around it I read what the context of the verses so I get an idea of what is being talked about.

Really though your verse helps to further support what I am saying. God's councel stands..what is his councel?

That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:21

"But to israel he sayeth All day long I have streatched forth my hands unto a DISOBEDIENT and GAINSAYING people."

What was the Councel(command) given? Do all people follow the command? Can man twart God's will??? YES! that is why they go to hell.

Disobedient that would mean they weren't obeying God...Gainsaying..that means they were acting against God, opposing him. and yet he is reaching his hands out to them why? because they have the ability to turn their hearts towards him. that goes for every man on this earth.

Again Jesus didn't die for only a few. he died for eveyone.

 

Ray I appreciate your points as wellthey are right on brother.

Larry you said: So what about the people who live in areas where the gospel has never been heard or preached, where there are no missionaries, no mass communication? Are they treatly exactly the same as those in America where we have all these things? Of course not. By your standard God is unfair to them because they were born in a communist bloc country, a thirdworld country of poverty, etc. where they will probably never the gospel. I have a Scriptural answer to that. You don't.

Well GOD said:

Romans 1:19-20

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shewed it unto them.

For the invisable things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the power and Godhead; so they are without excuse:

Being in a remote jungle or communist country or whatever,is not going to be an excuse.

also God said

Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven.."

so Whatever you have, must be either a contridiction or you have taken it out of the context, because there is no contradiction in God's infallable word.(AV1611)

 

***Quotes by Elders Wilford and David Pyles

Whenever the Bible says that God is no respector of persons, it means that God does not esteem one nationality over another. In other words, He will save a Gentile as fast as He will save a Jew. He will save a woman as fast as He will save a man. He will save a slave as fast as He will save a master. Therefore, there is no respect of persons with God. Read the references to God being a respector of persons, and you will find this is the context. If you want to strictly say that there is no repect of persons with God, does He not hear the prayers of His people over those of unsaved men? Would that not also make God a repector of persons?

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (II Pet. 2:1)

This verse is specifically referring to Jews. Look at the context since you are telling everyone else to do it.

". In particular, Israel is said to be bought by Him (Deuteronomy 32:6); purchased by Him (Psalms 74:2), and redeemed by Him (Exodus 6:6 and 15:13, Deuteronomy 7:8 and 13:5, II Samuel 7:23, I Chronicles 17:21)."

"The chapter bears strong similarity with Deuteronomy 32. In particular: Peter describes these false teachers as utterly perishing in their own corruption (vs. 12); similarly, Deuteronomy 32:5 describes persons who have corrupted themselves. Moreover, Peter describes these false teachers as being spots (vs. 13); similarly, Deuteronomy 32:5 refers to its subjects as spots. Most importantly, Peter describes these false teachers as being bought of the Lord (vs. 1); similarly, Deuteronomy 32:6 refers to its subjects as being bought of the Lord. However, the persons of Deuteronomy 32 were not bought of the Lord through the blood of Christ, but through the Lord's purchase of national Israel under the Old Testament covenant."

"Among the similarities, Jude also refers to these false teachers as corrupting themselves (vs. 10), and as being spots (vs 12). It is interesting to note that Deuteronomy 32:5, II Peter 2:13, and Jude 12 are the only verses in the Bible in which the wicked are referred to as spots, thus further indicating that the accounts of both Peter and Jude were written with Deuteronomy 32 in view."

"Moreover, in the fourth verse of Jude it is said of these false teachers: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. The Greek word for ordained in this verse is "prographo," which literally means "before written." The Greek word also occurs in Romans 15:4, where it is translated were written aforetime, and in Ephesians 3:3, where it is rendered wrote afore. Hence, Jude explicitly declares the case of these false teachers to have been considered in previous writings. Obviously, these previous writings must be of prophetic character, and indeed, upon closer examination of Deuteronomy 32, it will be found that this chapter contains prophetic elements. This is seen upon observing that the first part of Deuteronomy 32 is an address by Moses unto the children of Israel in which Moses warns of their apostasy in the latter days. The introductory remarks of this address are recorded in the final verses of chapter 31. Among these there is Deuteronomy 31:29, where Moses says, For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the works of your hands. This verse indicates the address of Moses to be of prophetic significance. In particular, it has pertinence to a time described as the latter days."

[ April 27, 2002, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Christopher ]

 

"To the above, one may add the fact when these false teachers are described as denying the Lord which bought them, the word Lord is translated from the Greek word "despotes," a title which is never distinguishably used of the Lord Jesus Christ. The term occurs only 10 times in the scriptures. It is translated master upon five occasions; four of which have reference to men (I Timothy 6:1,2, Titus 2:9, I Peter 2:18), and the other is used illustratively of God (II Timothy 2:21). Upon the remaining five occasions, it is translated Lord (Luke 2:29, Acts 4:24, II Peter, 2:1, Jude 4, Revelations 6:10), where reference is either explicitly to God the Father, or may be reasonably interpreted as being so. Moreover, in the fourth verse of Jude, which is fully quoted above, these false teachers are said to deny the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. The first occurrence of Lord in this statement is translated from "despotes," but the second occurrence is from "kurios," which is by far the most common of the two terms, and the one that is used elsewhere, as here, with reference to Christ. Hence, Jude clearly uses "despotes" in distinction to Christ, which yet further adds to the already preponderant evidence that the false teachers were not in fact bought with the blood of Christ.

Indeed, with the last observation, the present verse appears to suggest exactly the opposite of what advocates of universal atonement would have it to say. The word Lord appears in II Peter upon 15 occasions; all of which have reference to God; most of which have reference to the Lord Jesus Christ, but 14 of which are translated from "kurios." What prompted Peter to depart from the habitually used "kurios" in 2:1, where "despotes" is used instead? If Peter is indeed asserting that the false teachers were bought with the blood of Christ, then this message would have been best conveyed with "kurios." The fact that a different term was used indicates that a different message was intended; thus, it appears that Peter was deliberately avoiding the suggestion that these had been bought through Christ's death. But what need would there be of such precaution if Christ did in fact die for all mankind?" -- Elders Wilford and David Pyles

 

To those who say Im stating second payment

I refer you to the supposed unforgivable sin

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
In theory does not the Holy Spirit regenerate - in theory is it not the Holy Spirit who calls

Could not rejection of the call(s) - there being the option only one call per person - be the unforgivable sin which Christ's blood will not cover?

 

Christopher instead of running to men to tell you what to believe why not read your bible instead?

The chapter is dealing with the New testament church and false teachers and false teachers are just that. no matter who they are they said unsaved men who deny Jesus. Jesus bought and paid for those who deny him. thus don't unsaved men deny Jesus? and the blood that bought them?

why not go to Hebrews 10:29 and try to explain your way out of that truth as well?

[ April 28, 2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

Your post also stated this:

"To the above, one may add the fact when these false teachers are described as denying the Lord which bought them, the word Lord is translated from the Greek word "despotes," a title which is never distinguishably used of the Lord Jesus Christ."

So on top of trying to say that 2 Peter is referring to Jews only, which is refuted by simply reading the opening of the epistle and reading the the second chapter. Your posts trys to throw doubt on the fact that the LORD mentioned in the chapter, isn't in Fact The Lord Jesus. and this is Christian???? Last i check it is the Devil who casts doubt on the name of the Lord.

So by the thought process of these men, who ran all over the place, to only prove, thatthey were void of understanding, they are trying to imply that mere men bought false teachers???

so now according to your post when we read the word LORD in scripture we are to question wheather this is actually Jesus being spoken of?

Who else carried the title LORD whith a Capital Letter the word is in the middle of the sentance in which it is used. a capitalization would denote a name or title.. Is Lord, not the title carried by Jesus?

and these are the people you would listen to over scripture. People who would cast doubt on the name and title of the Lord, not to mention throw doubt on the word of God?

 

The capital letter on the word "Lord" is an interpretive issue. The Greek does not have capitals and lower cases distinguished. Furthermore, most the times "Lord" is used in Scripture it does not refer to Jesus. It most often is a translation of the tetragrammaton YHWH. You need to make a distinction between what the apostle wrote and what men have translated that by.

Additionally, you need to tone down your posts. Your demeanor is getting back to the old way of last week. Talk issues; do not make insults.

 

"The capital letter on the word "Lord" is an interpretive issue. The Greek does not have capitals and lower cases distinguished. Furthermore, most the times "Lord" is used in Scripture it does not refer to Jesus. It most often is a translation of the tetragrammaton YHWH. You need to make a distinction between what the apostle wrote and what men have translated that by."

Lord in that scripture means the Lord Jesus Christ you can deny it, but I don't think I will.

"Additionally, you need to tone down your posts. Your demeanor is getting back to the old way of last week. Talk issues; do not make insults."

I wasn't trying to make insults, I was simply stating fact. but if you think I was then I will respect your judgement. you are the moderator in this forum.

 

But the Greek word translated "Lord" (or Master) here most often refers to God the Father, rather than Christ. That (along with the fact that it doesn't say bought with a price, or purchased by the blood) makes this sort of a peculiar passage, and one open to various interpretations, including the one given above--that these particular false teachers were Jewish, and had been bought in the same way God bought all the other Jewish people when He redeemed them from Egypt.

 

russell, the people being addressed is the CHURCH. In Chapter 2 there are a lot of referrances back to situations in the old testament..however we are told in Corinthians that the old testamant is supposed to be an example for us, the Church.

Notice the way the verse is worded..false prophets among the people..okay that could be the pharisees..but then you have the words..EVEN AS there SHALL BE false teachers among YOU. YOU the church..that was who Peter was addressing here in this book. shall be is future tense.

you have "Lord" in v.9 so you are actually going to believe that this is the Lord Jesus here... but because v.1 goes against calvins teaching, you would believe that Lord isn't the Lord Jesus here??? come on now.

who are we to believe then? the Bible or men who tell us, "the Greek here is this..and it should read this way"

"Let God be true, and every man a liar"

 

'God does not react on the basis of His sinful creation.'

Did God place in the archangel, now Devil, the seeds of disobedience or did God ordain free will within that archangel to either continue to worship and adore Him or to try to ursurp the throne of the living God? {Note ' . . . when iniquity was found in thee.' not when you came to My time of your your betrayal}

Did God place within Eve the seeds of disobedience or were they given the choice to either obey Almighty God or to yield to the above fallen angel?

Has God placed within sinful human beings the seed of disobedience insuring them becoming non-elect or has He given His fallen creation the equal opportunity to become the sons and daughters of the living God?

One view is Augustinian, Calvinism; the alternate view clearly is more in keeping with the impeccible nature of God.

Dr. Berrian

 

For whom did Christ die?... All his children... Not only that on the resurrection morning we will all know who they are now won't we!... I know I'll see you all there!... Brother Glen

 

You brethren who are verbally attacking Christopher should read the Complete Works Of Josephus if you haven't already, then you would understand where Christopher is coming from. Read what happened to the Jews that crucified Jesus and that generation before you pass judgement on someone who is telling you the truth... Brother Glen

 

And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad. [John 11:52]

The purpose of Christ's death was not to obtain children but save the ones who had already been given to Him.

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. [Matt. 20:28]

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. [Matt. 26:28]

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. [Heb. 9:28]

He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [Is. 53:11]

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. [Rom. 5:19]

MANY does not mean ALL. How could the ransom have been made for all men? A ransom is something that is paid for the release of something. When Christ died on that cross, He actually accomplished something. He justified His people. He fulfilled the prophecy of the angel: "He shall save His people from their sins." [Matt. 1:21]

 

Christ's blood is incapable of covering the sins of the entire world?

There are those to whom the Word of God will be void and of no effect

Let's look at Scripture
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation

Their is obviously a reference to a group outside of the one Paul is in which is the saved; and that it is the duty of the saved to carry the Word OUT to the entire world

John 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. {taketh away: or, beareth}
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Any proper interpretation of the above passages is that the believers will come out of kosmos; and that there will be those who will refuse to accept God's gift; and thus not to be paid for and saved, but that if they would repent and believe; their sins could and would be paid for.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

As I look at the Greek for this verse I become even more firmly convinced that God is not forcing, but rather inviting, calling aloud, all who would come in

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Not to save the elect, but sinners, and the pattern is that Christ used Paul to expand the ministry to the rest of the world; thats why Paul is often called the apostle of the Gentiles. Unless you of course wish to state that God comes down, blinds the elect, and then has them healed.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

What do these passages suggest to you? Repentance is of man; inspired by God!

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Look at the word believeth - it is a personal action

Im not trying to deny pre-destination or election - both occur and are VERY Biblical, but also exists within the Scripture evidence for that of man's responsibility to choose, and to preach the Gospel

If I wasn't so busy with coming up with a lesson plan on Spiritual gifts; I would take more time, with the base Greek; then I currently have; I did do some greek above; just not a lot.