How do you feel about gun control?

Excuse me. A .223 caliber rifle is hardly a sniper tool. It's power is similar to a .22 caliber rifle. In Texas, it's used for small game hunting and target practice.
How do you know he obtained the gun legally? He may have, but just as easily could have bought it off the street illegally.
Sorry, but "gun control" doesn't control guns - only honest citizens who want them.

 

A quiz:

Gun Control

 

Optional,
The Maryland State Police is going to prove that a .223 was the Sniper's weapon of choice. It packs a much more powerful "wallop" than your ordinary .22 cal rim fire Long Rifle. A .223 has what is called a Center Fire bullet casing and is considered High Power. An ordinary .22 is not considered high power. You go squirrel hunting with a .22 rim fire rifle--small game! You go Deer hunting with a .223 center fire rifle--large game! Sorry, Optional! A .223 was the selected caliber in the sniper incident!

Anyway, glad they nailed the sorry sucker. I was about to form a "posse" of my own--go do a little Sniper hunting. I hear now somebody is taking appkications for a "switch" man!! Figure there are a lot of people out there who have no experience--but are willing to get a little "on the job" training! Show me the switch to throw on both of 'um!

Your friend,
Blackbird

PS--Gun control is a mind thing! You control your gun with your mind--its easier than tieing one's shoes by themselves!

 

Owning guns doesn't make me feel more manly.

 

News flash for you. You don't have to buy guns in guns shops. They can be bought anywhere. Make them illegal and the good guys who do not intend on killing someone won't have them, but the evil people who do plan on havu=ing them won't be bothered by the law, they can get them anywhere.
You sound as if no one ever dies from being shot in your country. Not true for sure.

 

Excuse me. A .223 caliber rifle is hardly a sniper tool. It's power is similar to a .22 caliber rifle.

Optional you are correct that it can be used for target and small game but if you are comparing it's power to the common 22 rimfire cartride you are forgetting about a few inches of powder. If this is the caliber that did the killing I believe the proof is in the pudding, that this is indeed a fine sniper tool. My brother in law has a ruger mini 14 in .223 and it is a powerful weapon. I don't feel any of this has any bearing on the discussion I just felt you were unaware of it's power.
Murph

 

All the more guns you have in the community all the less control you have. 30,000 people were killed by guns last year in the U.S.A.And still Americans want more guns.Why are you all so keen in killing yourselves.If Australian did not like you as much as we do,we would say that you are all ....ah sorry must go talk to you to-morrow
John

 

Some things anti-gun people don't want you to know....

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37a4bd91652e.htm

 

G'day again g'day mate. Still no comment on Kennesaw hmmm? ( http://www.dartreview.com/issues/2.26.01/editorial.html )

Any of the ban everything that bangs brigade wish to step in?

Edited to add: BTW, a quote from an article in today's (7-10) Newcastle Herald "Restricting sporting shooters and farmers from using firearms would not make Australia any safer, Acting Prime Minister John Anderson said yesterday..."

Pete

[ October 26, 2002, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Titus2_1 ]

 

Hello Johnv,

The thing is that when the Bill of Rights was written a "well regulated Militia" consisted of private citizens who conducted regular military drill, generally provided their own weapons, and served as the first line of defense for the local community. Thus, we have the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Likewise, the arms that these private citizen militiamen carried were at that time state-of-the-art weapons of war. Granted they were flintlocks. However, that is what the full-time trained military used as well. What does that mean to the U.S. citizen today? We must get at the intent of the founding fathers when they wrote this legislation. I maintain that it means that we have the right to keep and bear state-of-the-art military weapons such as assault rifles (or at least ones that can be converted into assault rifles).

I don't own any such weapons; however, I reserve the right to obtain one if I feel the need. The only gun in my home at present is a double barrel 12ga. It'll do for home defense and the government can take it from me when they pry it out of my cold dead hands.

[ October 26, 2002, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]

 

Any rifle can be used to snipe. I stand by what I said about the .223. It's called high velocity because it carries 5 - 600 yards with accuracy...as does a .22. Yes it packs more of a wallop than a .22.
As for hunting deer - get real. I don't know of a single deer hunter that would use such a weapon. The odds of simply wounding the animal are too great. You would have to be a master shot and very close.
As for it being a sniper tool... single action bolt small caliber. Not hardly.

 

I don't think Muhammad & Malvo were members of the NRA.

 

Optional,
Get real, man! The .223 will kill a deer--"graveyard dead"--just get on the receiving end of it and see what it'll do! The .223 is standard caliber for the AR-15, also known as the M-16 assault rifle. Go ask the Viet Cong what sort of damage it'll do! US Troops carry the weapon because they are able to carry more rounds per person--more firepower than the M-14, M-1 both of which are standard .30 caliber.

I've fired the M-16--compared to the standard .22 the .22 would be like shooting a sling shot!

My neighbor carries a .223 single shot deer rifle--get a deer in the cross hairs--its dead!!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

Bro. blackbird,
Here are the technical specs for the M-16 taken from this page.

Technical Data

Calibre: 5.56mm
Length with Flash Suppressor: 99cm
Length of Barrel: 50.8cm
Weight Empty(M16Al): 3.18kg
Weight Loaded(M16A l with 30 rounds):3.82kg
Magazine Capacity: 20 or 30 rounds
Muzzle Velocity: 990m /S
Maximum Effective Range: 400m
Rate of Fire: 700-950rpm(cyclic), 150-200rpm(automatic) and 45-65rpm (semi~automatic)

Not a .223 caliber at all.

Here is a link showing the abilities of the .223. Interestingly enough, it's from the National Forests in Mississippi's tree improvement personnel.

blackbird, I'm not trying to be obstinate. A .223 can kill a deer. It's just not a desireable weapon for deer hunting. It's range is short and you have to hit the deer in one of 2 spots perfectly for the kill.

 

After the Port Arthur massacre in Australia, Gun control was implemented. You can still purchase a gun provided you have done a course and have got a license. Semi Automatic wepons are not permitted unless you have an exceptionally good reason for having one.

The incedence of Gun related crime has dropped significantly. No doubt people still have illegal wepons. However get caught in possesion of one and you will go to jail.

Gun control can work and does. One reason given for owning a gun is out of fear of not having one. Jesus Christ made it very clear that we should not fear those that can kill the body, only those that can kill your soul.

 

Hello Ben W,

In the U.S. another reason for owning a gun is that our Constitution says we can. Also, hunting is fun and it puts food on the table at a lower cost than going to the grocery store.

 

Well, I love my little Beretta, and I know how to use it safely. I can protect my kids and myself if I need to. If the snipers had been in my town, they wouldnt have made it so far because practically everyone carries a firearm of some sort in their car. And guess what our crime rate is????
Tater

 

Well said, TaterTot!

Gun control cannot be legislated by some silly sissy in a Senate chair somewhere in DC! Rather, control is legislated in the mind of the individual holding the little "heater" in his hand! The way my mind is at the moment--my rifles, shotguns and "heater" can't even so much as even harm a flea! I have better control of my "heaters" than I do of my fly swatters! And around these parts of rural Mississippi--folks use their "fly flaps" more than their fancy "heaters!" We spray with Raid more than we do with Mace! We throw pepper on our dumplin's more than on people's faces!

A bunch of us preachers were talking one time about living where we do--in rural Mississippi--some of the preachers are "city slickers" who just so happen to be preaching in rural situations--but who long to return to city life(Jackson, Gulfport, Baton Rouge, Memphis, etc.). The subject got off on firearms and weapons, deer huntin' and such things. I casually made the comment that I didn't want to live anywhere where I couldn't "discharge my firearm" outside the front door of my house!--I got the strangest looks!!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

It was reported in the media the Bushmaster used by the sniper was traced from the manufacturer to the gun shop that sold it. However, there are no records that the weapon was ever sold. Which means: (a) The gun shop keeps sloppy records (doubtful), or (b) the weapon was stolen.

Once again, underscores the fact that criminals do not register guns (of any type). And never will.

As far as the damage inflicted by the Bushmaster, as described by the surgeon who operated on the victim from Ponderosa. The bullet from this weapon has an entry site and once inside the body, the bullet EXPLODES, thus ripping internal organs to shreds and leaving bullet in fragments.

 

It's not the gun. It's the son.

I am as appalled at the murders at Jonesboro as anybody, but I am not ready to accept the judgment of the Media/Liberal Left as to the cause of this tragedy. I listened as the gun toting Southern culture was named the reason for this and that a child is the product of his environment. I am very accustomed to Southern bashing by the media. It is as common as the cold. The West is catching the flack also. After all, they are just as terrible as the South. They only trail us by 10% in the number of gun owners while the righteous North only has 23% of their population that are crazy.
They mentioned that ever since the War of Northern Aggression (not their phraseology, but more accurate), the South has revered the soldier. In this society, it is refreshing that any one has respect for the soldier. Yes, there is a long legacy of exercising our constitutional right to keep and bear arms in this country. This fact established I find it interesting that untold numbers of Southern (as well as Northern and Western) fathers have trained their sons to hunt. Those sons grew up to fight our country's wars and in turned have trained their sons to do the same. They held down jobs, raised families and used their weapons for their proper purpose. In the old days, men like this would have been considered fine citizens and patriots. Now, they are just part of the vast right wing conspiracy and the cause for all the woes of the nation.
I was in boot camp with a lad from Alaska. Alaska is not Southern or Western. He had been hunting since he was able to hold a rifle. Our first time at the firing range, he placed sixty out of sixty shots in the head of the target. He had never shot anyone in his school. Why not? Murder was not in his heart. Hence my premise that it is the son, not the gun.
A pistol or a rifle is a weapon of self-defense, a tool to teach responsibility to hearth and country, a tool to teach discipline and a means of self-defense. The police do a fine and often unappreciated job, but they cannot be everywhere. As much as ever, today's citizen needs to be armed.
Murder stops when you remove it from the heart. Take away one weapon and a murderous heart will find another. A toothbrush with a whittled handle is a weapon. The six-inch pair of scissors in my office is a weapon. Well, not exactly. It is a tool, but I can misuse the tool and make it a weapon if murderous thoughts enter my heart and I enact those thoughts.
What do we do about a razor? We recently had an area youth use a razor as a weapon of self-harm and when others sought to stop him; he turned it into a weapon to harm them. I guess we need to ban razors, scissors, knives, and tooth brushes. A surgeon's scalpel or one of their other tools kills more children than any other means and we have legalized those weapons of death.
The boys in Jonesboro had murder in their hearts. Had there been no guns, they might have stolen some dynamite that farmers keep around for stump removal. In that case, the loss of life could have been much greater. I am sure that there were other methods, but I am not one to figure out ways to kill people. I am amazed at the things that Hollywood comes up with in movies that would have never crossed my mind.
While we are on that subject, let's deal with the issue that children are a product of their environment. If we were all sheltered like the days before television and movies, maybe we would not have copy cat crimes so close together. News did not travel as fast and we did not have extremely detailed coverage of every gory murder broadcast and rebroadcast so that troubled people could get the facts down well so that they can imitate the crime. Yes, the press must remain free, but I think it could be handled in a much more discrete way than it is now.
I said that I am not one to sit around and figure out ways to maim and murder people. Hollywood has plenty of script writers for that. I can remember when the Lone Ranger, Zorro, Roy Rogers, and John Wayne never killed anyone. At worst, they winged them, but normally shot the gun out of the bad guy's hand and then boxed/wrestled them into submission and jail.
Now good and bad guys alike blow off heads, arms, etc with flows of blood and parts in digitized full gore color. In many movies, it is getting hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys. Both have the same habits, attitudes and ability to kill and then go out for a drink or a woman as if they had just squashed a mosquito. There are no morals to any of the stories anymore. It is just senseless killing and sex. I just can't imagine why a child might not be as sensitive or hold a proper sense of the value of life. Hollywood and the music industry spend millions on vivid visual and verbal imagery to earn millions glorifying gangsters and their lifestyles. Yep, the child is a product of his environment.
Oh yes, is it not interesting that since the coming of Dr. Spock, the removal of God from the classrooms and the teaching of evolution as fact instead of a poorly formulated and unsubstantiated theory that kids have gone ape? After all, that is what we teach them. They are high tech apes that make their own ethics as they go to suit their personal situations which means that God is dead or you are a god. Gods have the power of life and death. If a god decides that it is right for you to die then you die. Video role games abound where the player is a demon or god with vast powers to torture or destroy your enemy. Studies have shown that men exposed to pornography become desensitized to rape. Any wonder why our children are desensitized to violence? We have given our children such a great environment since 1965.
Parents, I do not leave you off the hook. With all the trash out there your job is much harder, but you must still do your job. You must resist the temptation to consider raising your children properly equating to providing more material things for them. What they need more than ever is your time and attention. When you spend sixty to seventy hours a week to provide them the toys and gadgets of this age you are telling them that the toys are the priorities of life. He who dies with the most toys loses most often his soul. The soul is priceless. Your children are priceless and will survive not having all the toys, but they cannot survive losing your love and time.
Having said that, we must pass the ultimate responsibility back to the individual, whether child or adult. I am a strong believer in a free will. Families, Church, and Society has failed many children over the years, but those children exercised their free will and found faith and strength to overcome those deficits and become men and women of character and brought values to the ones who have failed them. I may be forced to grow up in a cesspool of ignorance and walk through the sewer of an immoral society, but no one can stop me from showering if I really want to be clean. The choice to remain dirty is mine.
These children chose to murder other children and the heroic teacher. They must then be tried as adults. In Hebraic culture and some Christian sects, the age of adulthood is twelve. In other sects, there is the age of accountability that means whenever you know right from wrong and you choose to do wrong then you are held accountable before God. I cannot believe that these children did not know right from wrong. I find it hard to believe that they would think that it was OK or just a game to shoot people down in cold blood. My heart grieves with the parents and loved ones of the victims and of the boys. I cannot imagine the grief of the boys' family. I can imagine that of the victims' families.
These children had murder in their heart and it matured them beyond their years and they have committed an adult crime. I do not know who may have failed them, if anyone. They may have had all the love of their family and the Church. Their society may have been trying to help them all that it could. Nevertheless, they chose to kill. It was premeditated. It was not children playing with a weapon and by happenstance discharged a round into a crowd. The victims were picked off like squirrels or quail. The boys went to kill and they killed. That is an adult choice. It requires an adult sentence. I would vote for the death penalty. These boys and the ones in Kentucky and Mississippi should be executed. I do not say that lightly. I have children and grandchildren and the thought of a child on the electric chair is anathema to me emotionally. I have no desire for anyone to die uselessly or needlessly, but these murders cannot be dismissed without justice.
I believe that our society is a breeding ground for this type of thing. While we must reap what we have sown, we must still seek to prevent the spread of the disease. I pray that we would someday return to the truth that will prevent the disease and use it to heal those that are infected before they become rabid and must be destroyed. No, it is not the gun. It is the son. Unless we return our country to the Son we will all one day lose everything to much worse than a gun. God help us!!