Liberal, left-leaning "Baptists?"

Hey Y'all,
I've been following this thread since it's beginning. It is IMO that those labeling themselves liberal are using semantics to justify their "fence riding". Whatever the case, here's my take. Sinners who are (truly) repentant for their sin of lying, gossipping or homosexuality should be treated as brethren. They should not be forced out of the church. Those who are embracing, encouraging a sin, should not be tolerated. Blatant sinning is the worst thing that could happen to an assembly and leaders who allow or encourage it will be dealt with accordingly. The scriptures are clear in how to deal with this issue. Struggling with sin is one thing, giving in to our sin and casting scripture to the wind is yet another.

The liberals who are encouraging this type of lifestyle are erring in their exegesis. One can twist the scriptures to their destruction if one is not careful!

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

In HIM,
Scott

[ May 13, 2002, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]

 

Here is Bible for those of you who think sin should not be dealt with in the church!

1 Corinthians 5:3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

As for the American Baptist Church:

As a child I attended an American Baptist Church; no one ever told me how to get saved or even dealt with salvation.

As a young married couple we attended an American Baptist Church, we indicated on the visitors card that we were interested in joining the church. Afew days later we received a packet of collection enveops with our name on them so I guess we were members. never returned because seemded theye were only interested in our money, not our soul!

At the age of 25 I attend an IFB church, went forward at the invitation to join the church, pastor asked for a tesitmony, not having any idea what he was talking about, I just stood there with a blank look on my face. He then invited me to his house for dinner to discuss it. After dinner he dealt with my soul not church membership. For the first time in my life I found a church and pastor thet was interested in my eternal destiny more than my pocketbook. Praise God I was saved that Sunday afternoon in the Pastor's study. No American baptist ever cared for my soul!!

Ernie

 

post it common ground is good for us all, but let me further specify that in my Church a homosexual is very welcome. For the church to be effective we must Pray that the lost will visit us, as well as struggling Christians.
I have no problem accepting that some homosexuals are saved and although they may want to rid themselves of those feelings they aren't yet able too.
If and when they attend my Church I will seek to minister to them in the same way Jesus ministered, by meeting a person where they are and building a bridge to where they need to go. Notice I said meeting not accepting. Jesus used a Cross for a bridge and we must do no less.
My point is this, I plan and Pray that my messages will send the same message to gossipers as well as homosexuals, and that is one of power and truth that points the way to the one who can cure their ill's.
I don't believe a homosexual would be very comfortable in my services if he desires to keep his sin instead of turning from it, and I hope that gossipers feel the same.

 

No Stan, I have conceded in this argument that homosexuality is a sin. I'm asking how much tolerance of it do we accept in our churches and how do we deal with those that are. So that we don't allow any unfairness against one sin as opposed to another sin, I am asking that we not look at homosexuals in deciding this but rather look at some other type sin that current members are apparently not able to stop such as gossiping.

BPM has said that he admits that there are some women in the church who will never stop gossiping. Does that mean that gossiping may not be a choice for some women? Why would a woman choose to continue gossiping when she knows it is a sin and that she could/will go to hell for continuing it?

Why is gossiping found in higher numbers among women than men. Why is pornography found in higher numbers among men than women? Is it something innate, that can't simply be stopped by making a simple choice. Can some successfully stop while others can't? Can the church expect that because mankind has been cursed by original sin and have these weakness' that it can all be over in some set time limit?
If original sin brought sickness; and after we are saved we continue to experience sickness (chemical changes within our bodies); and at the same time, original sin brought changes within the mind, and body, which causes us to sin, why do we expect to rid ourselves of these other "sickness" called sin?

Or could it be that we are truly forgiven of all our sins and we must continue to fight against them, yet never be required by the church to get rid of a sickness called gossip, pornography, arrogance, the common cold, or cancer?


Paul said he can not help but to continue doing the very things he doesn't want to do. How can the church hold the poor gossiping women to some higher level?

How then can we reconcile verses like this?
1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

These verses seem to say that there should be NO SINNING at all period, if you are truly saved.

[ May 13, 2002, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

Counselor, I'm starting to think that your reason for starting this thread had nothing to do with "seeing inside the mind" of liberal baptists. Instead, it would seem that your far more interested in simply ranting against us.

If it's inconceivable to you that a committed Christian can believe that homosexuality is not a sin or that it's OK to have a margarita with a group of colleagues; what is the point of carrying on this discussion?

Joshua

 

Ok, on the same token show me in the bible where it's ok to harbor bitter feelings toward a brother or sister...show me where it's ok to be addicted to pornography,show me where it's ok to overeat? Seriously, homosexuality is always pointed out as THE sin...yet when it comes to other sin well goodness most would be preaching to the choir!!! I personally do not agree with homosexuality, but I am very tired of homosexuals being placed in a department all of their own as if they cannot go to heaven but the rest of us who do sin are allowed...talk about a license to sin eh?

God doesn't allow any of those things you mentioned above? Ok, once again we have a personal opinionist sharing personal convictions instead of wanting the bible being preached we want our thoughts being preached....ugh

karen

[ May 13, 2002, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: redwhitenblue ]

 

In my experience (almost exclusively IFB), I have heard more sermons on sinful speaking/talk, pure lifestyles, pornography, and many other topics than homosexuality by a very wide margin. Contrary to the liberal impression, I doubt that many fundamentalists are bombarded with anti-homosexual propaganda.

IMO, the difference between homosexuality and the other sins being bounced around is that these practitioneers claim their sin as a lifestyle. I have never know a self-professing christian to proudly proclaim themselves a gossip and backbiter or pornography lover or liar or adulterer or... All of these sins exist within the church but one of the unique characteristics of homosexuality is the length to which many will go to fight for its acceptance against biblical command and principle.

Should we kick them out of the church? No. Not as long as it is not their "lifestyle" and they are progressively dealing with their sin... The same would go for any other habitual sinner that continued in their sin, denying its sinfulness and thus bringing reproach on Christ and the church.

 

Actually, I did make that claim and have in several other places on the Board as well.

As for drinking alcohol, ordaining women, and affirming homosexuality - there are strong biblical cases to be made for all three. These topics have, in fact, been debated ad infinitum on other threads.

Feel free to hold to whatever views match your standard of interpretation. I rarely debate here because I find it a complete waste of time. My hope is that you simply realize that the baptist spectrum is much, much larger than you seem to realize.

Joshua

P.S. Just out of curiousity, when you titled the thread "liberal, left-leaning Baptists" were you thinking of people who don't use only the King James and who listen to contemporary music as "liberals?" Seriously or just tongue-in-cheek?

[ May 13, 2002, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua Villines ]

 

[ May 13, 2002, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]

 

It might do some of u well to study 2 Timothy, Paul covers the subject of Christian conduct quite well.

Ernie

 

Stan, why don't you just believe what God said about these things and quit fighting us on this? You are caught in the hands of Satan; he is blinding you from God's truth. Read the Bible and do what it says instead of interpreting it to your own liking. We are right and you are wrong.

When I use your argument style, it seems to come up lacking. What do you think?

 

It's amazing no one is answering my questions.

 

Post it,
I agree, gossips should be dealt with in much the same manner as lyers or homosexuals.

You ask:
Does anyone else agree with BPM, Stan, and Myself that sinners should be allowed to stay in the church while they work out their sin issues?

Scott replies:
I would ask someone to leave who had the wrong attitude toward lying. If he understood it to be sin, and refused to repent, out ya go!

The homosexual who repents can stay. Time will tell if his heart is right. A good tree can only bear good fruit.

Scott

[ May 13, 2002, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]