Women, teaching, authority

What do you do with this verse:
1Cor.11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

It was all right for a woman to pray or prophesy (a form of teaching); she just had to have her head covered.
DHK

[ November 11, 2002, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

First of all, I read it in context.

That means that women are not to teach men, kinda simple. Scripture is rather easy to interpret when you accept it for what it says, instead of what you want it to say.

As far as the prayer, prayer is to worship God, not a educational lesson. The cultural statement about them being shaved was because prostitutes commonly had their head shaven. It would dishonor them to be bald. It was considered wrong in the society for a women to have her head uncovered, praying with her uncovered was a distraction that is why Paul said they should cover their head. He did not say it was wrong for them to have their head uncovered, he said if it detracted from the worship of God, then it is best to have women cover their head. This then would be the equivalant of a lady coming to church in a bikini today. It would distract everyone. Taking the focus off God.

When we distract worship, we cause a stumbling block for another, and possibly even for ourself. As Scripture states, if you cause another to stumble you are guilty of their sin.

 

Women who desire to fulfill their God-given role do not teach or exercise authority over men.

Complementarians have no desire to make men out of women. Egalitarians have no respect for the opposite sex.

1 Cor. 11 says nothing about praying or preaching in the context of men.

Let us stop forcing the issue.

 

I believe the Bible, it says what it means and means what it says. A passage to go with it is, Titus 2:3-5:

3: The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4: That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5: To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

What a great ministry the women have listed in these three verses, yet as we get closer to the end of time I believe there is rebelion against the God given positions of male and female that was established for the good of mankind. IMOH

Now I opened a can of worms

 

I read a number of books on the topic the best by far is "Women in the Church: A Fresh Analysis of 1 Timothy" Edited by Andreas Kostenberger and Thomas Schreiner. Its really great reading just to see how a real gramitical-historical study should be performed. Here's the web site on CBD.

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product/91767493?item_no=20204&event=ESRC&item_code=WW

[ November 11, 2002, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Deacon ]

 

Might a woman interject an opinion here?
It grates on my last nerve to hear a woman preach. Even on TV.

 

1Cor.11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head:

No, he didn't say it was "wrong," per se, he said it was dishonourable, which is about the same thing. The issue in Corinth was one of headship. Wearing a headcovering was signifying who was the head of the home. The man was the head of the home, as Christ was the head of the man. The verse fits in perfectly with 1Ti.2:8-15, as women were not to have authority over a man, and it also fits in with the passage in Titus, as women do have a valid teaching ministry among other women and children.
DHK

 

That's quite a broad brush you are painting with...

Many egalitarians have no desire to make men out of women and we certainly have great respect for the opposite sex and the attributes of femininity.

 

Lookie, another thread on women and the church. This thread, like the others, will bear no fruit.

 

will bear no fruit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why would you assume this? Any time the Word of God is discussed, and the scripture is studied, the purpose for which God has will be fulfilled.

God Bless

Bro. Dallas

 

Alas,

Those who believe women should be barred from the pulpit will not change their positions; neither will those who believe women should be allowed to speak from the pulpit.

 

Nevertheless,

The foundation of God resteth sure.

(BTW, I am in the camp that women should stay out of the pulpit and deacon service).

Just so everyone will know which way to gig when gigging for ole Frogman.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

{edited to correct spelling}

[ November 12, 2002, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Frogman ]

 

Frogman - Ain't nothing wrong with being Biblical, Brother. I never did figure out how a woman could be "husband of one wife."

 

Amen!! Never have I found where husband was used when referring to the female.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

I would seem that Paul was one of"Those who believe women should be barred from the pulpit"

1Timothy 2
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

 

Yet, God gives the spiritual gift of pastoring to women. Female pastors have been blessed by the Holy Spirit and have born much fruit. There are Biblical examples of spiritual leaders. Jesus makes no distinction between men and women on the issue.

It's important to separate what was Paul's instruction of spiritual importance and what was Paul's instruction of administrative matters when it came to running a congregation. Clearly to me, this verse was the latter. If we follow this without taking the societal view into account, we are simply engaging in biblical legalism.

We men often think that women aren't supposed to have authority over a man. Yet, the fifth commandment clearly tells us to honor our father and mother (not one more than the other). At the wedding feast at Cana, Jesus performs his first miracle at the behest of his mother.

I could go on and on, and I'm sure those who disagree will do likewise.

[ November 13, 2002, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

Johnv has a point. Those are all perfect examples and reasons why women should pastor.

Here is what Paul actually said Johnv:

I do not allow a woman to teach a man.

I do not allow a woman to exercise authority over a man.

So, she can neither teach or exercise authority over a man. Paul addressed both ministry and administration.

Johnv, not everyone shares your low view of Scripture in regards to issues.

BB, whether you call it a broad brush or a roller I don't really care. Egalitarians refuse to help women develop their God-ordained roles. They try to make men out of them.

Like all the good exegesis supporting women preachers, I am out.

 

There have been women used of God; no one would deny that. Can you point to just one female pastor in the New Testament.
DHK

 

Are there female pastors? Yes there are.

Does that mean that God called them? No it does not.

You can spend a little time in some seminaries and find people who claim they are called, but their life doesn't reflect it. Yes, they may seem to be doing a lot of good works, but in the process they are saying that Scripture is wrong by their personal decision to become preachers.

I believe women are very intelligent, and have the ability to preach, but God decided that the position of pastor was to be reserved for men. I am not about to say that I know better than God does and say it is ok for women to be preachers.