Can God curse beleivers

God can do anything He pleases. Period.

But I know of nowhere in the New Testament that says anything like this.

They are two totally different things.

Tithes were mandatory under the Law. Under grace, we give our offerings.

And, yes, that is contrary to what many preach from the pulpit. But i figure they'll get over it sooner or later.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

In His Grace,

In Romans 8:28-30 you will find that those who are His are in the process of being transformed into the likeness of Jesus Christ Himself.

In Philippians 1:6, you will find that God is faithful to finish the good work He has begun in us.

In Hebrews 12 you will find that He disciplines us.

But curse us? No. Discipline is not fun, but necessary, and not a curse.

Jesus said He gave us His peace and His joy. That is certainly not cursing us! We can sure make ourselves unhappy, though, when we decide to go our own way and He has to haul us back! So I guess we can, in that sense, curse ourselves, but God doesn't curse those who are His.

 

Amen, with one other benefit Helen:

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.


HankD

 

I'm surprised by the OP. The poster's chosen "displayed name" seems to indicate greater knowledge than this. I'm in agreement with the first 3 responses. Thanks, Trotter, for the distintion between the tithe and the offering. Read Romans 8:1-4. Put the stress on the word NOW: "There is therefore NOW no condemnation......". Now and forevermore, blessed assurance! Chastised, yes. Been there, done that. Cursed? No, a thousand times, no.

 

Both tithes and offerings were part of the ceremonial Levitical law for Israel. Neither of them had to do with putting money in a plate.

Tithes were yearly selections of one tenth of one's agricultural produce to be eaten by one's household and shared with Levites, widows, and strangers within one's gates. It was their national tax and welfare system for their theocratic form of government. (Deuteronomy 14:22-29)

Offerings were things burned on an altar. I can't find anywhere in the Bible where an "offering" means or symbolizes otherwise.

IMHO, gifts would be the Biblically correct term for the practice of meeting the needs of each other and those working in the ministry, whether monetary or other. However there are no upper or lower boundaries for gifts except what can be given cheerfully. (2 Corinthians 9:7)

I assume you are talking about Malachi 3:8-12. This is addressed to the nation of Israel--to the people and even to the priests (Malachi 2:1,4,7-9; 3:3-4,6)--about their mistreatment of the storehouse system of tithe collecting that Nehemiah had instituted (Nehemiah 10-13) and their offering polluted bread (Malachi 1:7,10,12) and blemished livestock (Malachi 1:8,13-14)

If you haven't been tithing your crops and livestock yearly for the Levites and burning things on an altar and you aren't being cursed, I guess this curse was not meant for you.

 

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Nu 18:20 And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel.

21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Nu 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

The purpose of "Tithes" was to make it possible for the "Priest" to serve in the temple without having to work and "support themselves".

Even today, it's referred to as "Supporting the Ministery".

If the OT was a "Schoolmaster", tithing certainly is "required".

 

Yes, yes, a hundred times, yes!

Always look at the context; look at the Scriptures that surround those in question; look for the recipients.

Gifts are for the ministering of the saints.

Gifts should meet the necessity of those evangelizing.

Gifts are easier to administer and more effective when planned rather than impromptu ("offering" plates, anyone?). Give of what God has prospered you; don't be strongarmed into giving a specific amount that can't be done cheerfully.

Gifts should be given cheerfully knowing that the more given in proportion of what you have the greater the benefit.

 

There is nothing in Scripture to support
temple = church
storehouse = church
Levites/priests = parishoners
tithes (livestock/crops) = tithes (paycheck)
etc.

I believe in "supporting the ministry" (New Testament) but there is no way you can prove with Scripture that "tithes" are required to do such.

 

Supporting the ministry is required. Supporting fellow believers in need is required. In general those who trust in Christ are freed from both the trappings of greed and their anxioty in looking after their own needs, so are able to share and share willinging all that they possess. Those most of us don't, in this wealthy nation, 10% (if that what this arguement is really over) really should be the minimum we could give.

 

Yes!

Yes!

Is this your opinion? If it is a Scriptural mandate, prove it with Scripture. The minimum and maximum boundaries for Christian giving is that which can be done cheerfully (2 Cor 9:7). If there are mandatory limitations on what a believer should give, then they are against 2 Corinthians 9:7.

Ten percent of one's paycheck is a good scheme to follow; however, to say that such is a command or a should to a New Testament believer cannot be supported in the New Testament, nor can it be properly derived from the Old Testament.

 

How does this relate to the OP, if at all?


Acts.5
[1] But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
[2] And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
[3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
[4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[5] And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
[6] And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
[7] And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
[8] And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
[9] Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
[10] Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

 

God's curses on people in the OT were the expression of His judgment on sin. There is no record of this in the NT that I know of. People in the OT did not have the sealed indwelling of the Holy Spirit as believers do. God does not curse believers.

 

The curse in Malachi 3 is defined in the context:

They were cursed, so what is it?

The "windows of heaven" has to do with rain. This same term is in another passage:

Although in this passage it is obviously negative "opening the windows of heaven" means sending rain upon the earth in abundance. Part of the curse was that they were not getting needed rain.

Another part of the curse was that devourers were coming and destroying the fruits of their ground. They were also having fruit rot before harvest.

If the children of Israel properly tithed of their crops and livestock year by year, sharing with the Levites, the fatherless, the widows, and the strangers within their gates; and properly offered good offerings upon the Lord's altars--not the blind, the lame, and the polluted--God would make their land delightsome. If they didn't obey these laws, their land was cursed by not getting sufficient rain, devourers destroying what little crops could survive, and so on.

Simple enough?

 

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Tithes are the "means" by which the ministery is supported, in the OT, it was the "Firstfruit" of the harvest, we substitude "money" to purchase the harvest.

OFFERING/SACRIFICES

There's only "ONE SACRIFICE" God will accept from us.

Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Your "Sacrifice" can't be purchased by your "Tithes", they are "Separate".

 

It seems that people who pick out certain laws from the Old Testament to place themselves under also pick out certain laws to ignore that do not particularly appeal to them.

If the 3rd chapter of Malachi requires us to tithe, the 4th places us under the law of Moses, which we are clearly not, according the Gospel.

MR