Tithing - YES or NO?

Illinoisboy --

My question to you would be, "How do you do
it???" Give me a break!

You work 45 hours a week at another job then
pastor a church?? Is pastoring Not a full-time
job in itself?

It always amazes me when people express that
pastors should have an outside job so that they
will know what it feels like. Pastoring IS a full-
time job. And here is a man who cannot pos-
sibly fulfill what pastoring requires because he
has to work another job. I am sure he doesn't
do it because he just wants to.

Certainly, I have been around lazy pastors who
had no outside job yet thought it a chore to go
to a home to pray for one who was sick, who
lifted the Bible for study only on late Saturday
night, who did not want any calls before 9 a.m.
unless someone was dying, etc. But this is
not the norm.

Pastoring is a full-time job, and unless the place
of worship is very small, it takes very little from
each family to make sure that pastor has a
decent living, a home, and a vehicle to use in
order to officiate at all the functions we expect
him to show up in to represent us.

And another thing: all pastors should have a
full day off each week, with no responsibilities
to the congregation, just like the rest of us
expect from work--minimally. How many
congregations allow that?

 

Abiyah,
Thanks for the understanding, believe it or not it is rare to find. I do
wish to state though that I am not poor-mouthing my situation. I know
God has called me here and here I will stay until He moves me. As for how I do
it? Much like many other pastors out in this part of the country, day by day it is
all you can do. My family pays the biggest price. I have 3 kids and 1 due this
month!!!!. I don't get to spend near enough time with them as I would like, nor do
I see my wife enough (it may be enough from her point of view!! Pray
for them I don't wish for them to resent the ministry because of this. I work from
7am to 5pm Mon-Fri and have a Wed pm service, Thurs visitation and study time as
well as spending time with them. So pray for me that I will manage my time wisely.
I also hope to find a part-time job this fall. We are ready to sink or swim, but we can't
do this much longer (it has been almost 4 years). I am sorry if this sounds like I am
complaining, because I promise I am not, but the more you know the better you can
pray.

 

Only if one is an OT Jew

 

Wow, Illinoisboy. Talk about the mission field.
Tthe more I am on here, the more Ii have to pray
about. I will pray.

 

Abraham tithes before there was an O.T. law, before there were Jews.

Titihing is not becaue God need our money, but for us, for or spiritual growth, and health. When we tithe we must learn to trust God with our finances becasue we are living on less then 100%, Some of us do not 30,000. or 40,000. a year to live on, so even a 10% is a signifcant amount, it takes trust, and as we trust, we grow if faith.

And telling otthers how much you tithe is against scripture, we are not to tell how much we give, it is pride in ourselves and our ability to give more that makes us tell how much we give.

 

Someone made a statement above that the Levites never tithed--well, let's look again. Over in Hebrews 7: 9 says, And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth thithes, paid tithes in Abraham." So, which of the Levites paid tithes? Everyone of 'um!

 

OK blackbird, you are right and it seems that I have had to eat a lot of humble pie lately.

It doesn't taste good.

Let me restate :

Under the Law, the Levites received no inheritance of land, so under the Law the Levites personally were not required to give a tithe of the produce of the land. However, the Levites or anyone who so desired including the wage earner (not required to tithe under the law) could give any amount they desired to the Lord,
a tithe, 2 tithes, 3 tithes of income, all of it, whatever.

Then as now, anyone who knows the grace of God knows that everything that we have and are is because of Our Triune God.

HankD

[ August 04, 2002, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

I personally believe that some things do not change from the OT to the NT . . one of these are tithes. I believe GOD expects us to provide him with our first fruits. Some have stated in here that generous offerings are the new rule, but how many actually give enough offerings to keep the doors open in the church (or pay the poor old pastor who works 24/7 to take care of the spiritual needs of his flock). I attend a church of just over 1,100 members (not a pastor-just evangelist out of the church) and have found that we have been having difficulty paying our bills because of the lack of tithing and the mentality that it is not necessary by some of th congregation. Sure they give $20 here and there, but that does NOT meet the needs of the church. I averaged it out for a sermon I preached last month. . .Each member provides the church with approx. $900 a YEAR. I'm sorry, but tithes should be included in your monthly budget. It is all of our responsibility to take care of the needs of the Christian body that we are a part of.

 

What if someone "personally" believes the opposite? Do personal opinions dictate what these "some things" are that "do not change?" While I'm not against giving 10%, I'm yet to be convinced from scripture that the Jewish tax is mandatory for Gentile believers.

I agree fully with the last sentence. The believer takes care of needs because his new nature, given as part of God's grace, loves others with the same kind of love God loved him with. One who's mind has been renewed and life changed should have the desire to give cheerfully and sacrificially to meet the needs of others. Look at the early church in Acts. They met each other’s needs, without any mention of a mandatory tithe to the church body.

Sounds like your church problem may be bigger than the issue of the tithe. Something is amiss when mandatory and regulatory mandates are needed in order to make someone who says they are part of the body, contribute to the well being of the rest of the body. Tougher rules or mandatory budget requirements won't fix the underlying problem. The Pharisees proved that.

 

Quote:

Something is amiss when mandatory and regulatory mandates are needed in order to make someone who says they are part of the body, contribute to the well being of the rest of the body. Tougher rules or mandatory budget requirements won't fix the underlying problem.
-------------------------------------------------
Our Church does not require tithes, nor do we attempt to make anyone contribute to the well being of the rest of the body. We simply encourage those who are saved to give God what is due him, our first fruits . . .so that the church can operate.

As an Evangelist, I have been in allot of churches. . . One of the most common problems I run into among Baptists of all types, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc (yes. . I preach out of denomination very often) is giving. God deserves it ALL, is 10% really too much to ask.

It almost seems that no one wants to commit their money to God, so they stick with the "I'll give as I can" mindset. Maybe you have enough discipline to give enough to take care of your church and their needs without tithing, but in my experience.. . most do not.

[ August 08, 2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: OVM Online ]

 

I think sometimes people need to give money to a church to help them out a bit.
I also think that some people involved with some churches are greedy.
PSALM 110:3 says "Your people shall be volunteers in the day of your power"
ISAIAH55:1 says a bit about buying wine and milk without money and price.
ISAIAH 56:11-12 also says abit about being greedy.

 

JD. ..please don't take this as sounding fussy, it is not intended that way. Sometimes while writing in these boards passion for a belief is often mistaken for anger. I don't want you to think that for a minute.

I do agree that some church workers and pastors in the world take advantage of the ability to control church/ministry funding, but having grown up as a PK, and working in the ministry since a young age, I can tell you that pastors usually work very hard and are on call 24/7. While a normal church member may be eating Thanksgiving diner with their family, some pastors are out counseling depressed individuals who are trying to kill themselves due to seasonal depression. . . Things like this happen at all hours of the night and day. A pastor's job is NEVER done. I do have a problem with pastors (and ministries) that have golden stages, piano's, Mic. cords and drive around in fancy $80k cars(no names , but I do believe that a pastor deserves to be paid a decent salary like anyone else.

It is not my intention to attack anyone's belief. I believe that our God is a personal God that deals with us all on a personal level about our convictions, but I do feel very strongly that we must provide for the needs of our church. While I don't like to think of a church as a business, there are business aspects. . one of those is maintaining a budget. How can you maintain a budget unless you have a steady set income into the church? If church members are not willing to give regulary and sacrificially, not only are they hurting their church, they are robbing themselves of a blessing.

I wasn't always so passionate about tithing, but I quickly learned that when I gave God what was due HIM, He blessed my budget. . . somehow it was easier to balance my bank account and my bills were never unpaid.. or even late.

 

Tithing...I do not believe it should be forced, nor do I enjoy services where they act all solemn and pray a little prayer to induce guilt before somberly marching down the aisle with the trays.
Giving should be from the heart, and should be able to be done in joy. I loved seeing this one church that didn't take offerings. We were made aware of where to put our tithes if we so chose to do so once every few months, and I've never seen people give so freely.
Also, I consider helping others in need above putting money in the offering plate, as long as the church is not in need. (on another note, it irks me beyond belief to see a church use tithes to buy fancier chairs or carpet when their own people are in need of help) If a friend is in need of help or support, it may very well cut into what I put into the plate next service.
Chrys

 

Anytime we let a Jew living under the law give more than we give living under grace--we become a disgrace to grace! The tithe is where beginners get in! You've been saved 10, 15, 20 years--you ought to be well beyond the Jewish "beginning point!"

 

Blackbird, can you rephrase that last post, because certainly the way I'm interpreting isn't the way you meant it.
Chrys

 

Blackbird will not have to re-phrase! The bank teller does not have to "recount" if she counts right the first time!