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NRSV? any thoughts

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Pete Richert, Aug 16, 2001.

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  1. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Wells,

    I don't know how many different ways to say this. The Bible is the heart of my faith and my soul authority. You don't think the "other cheek" passage is literal, I do. I don't think the Romans passage is intended to condemn homosexuality, you do.

    We both use exegesis to understand the Bible, we just differ on specifics. Neither of us "believes in the Bible" more than the other.

    Joshua
     
    #41 Rev. Joshua, Aug 23, 2001
  2. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Joshua,

    Jehovah's Witnesses take this passage, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," and change one word so that it reads, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." From this, they develop a complete cult that denies the Godhood of Jesus Christ.

    If homosexuality is "OK with God," then would you please ask Him to apologize for what He did to Sodom and Gamorrah? You must also take away or add to some passages in Genesis, Leviticus, Judges, Matthew, Mark, Acts, Romans, 1 Cor, 2 Cor, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Thes, Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation.
     
    #42 John Wells, Aug 23, 2001
  3. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CJoshuaV:
    Wells,

    I don't know how many different ways to say this. The Bible is the heart of my faith and my soul authority. You don't think the "other cheek" passage is literal, I do. I don't think the Romans passage is intended to condemn homosexuality, you do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>     Actually, some of us believe that the Bible is always literal unless it clearly indicates otherwise. BTW, how would literal/non-literal come into play with the "other cheek" passage?

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>We both use exegesis to understand the Bible, we just differ on specifics.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This is true. However, there is a correct way of interpretting the Bible and one or more incorrect ways. Further, the Holy Spirit is not the source of this contradiction. For instance concerning Romans 1, either you are being led by the Spirit and I by the flesh or vice versa. My understanding is consistent with what God condemns (all sex outside of the marital union) and what He affirms (one man, one woman forsaking all others for life).

    We are not both correct. These are mutually exclusive conclusions.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Neither of us "believes in the Bible" more than the other.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Whether this statement is true or not...it is meaningless. The JW's that Wells mentioned believe their "Bible" in a practical sense more than almost all Baptist. The devoted JW spends more hours studying and evangelizing than anyone orthodox Christian I know. Unfortunately, they believe what certain men say about the Bible not what it says. Most of what they believe is a complete distortion of the Truth.

    In a similar way, I believe that liberals bend the Bible to agree with their world view rather than consulting the Bible to develop their world view.

    Believing the truth of the Bible is all important. To affirm that we hold our beliefs as strongly as someone else means nothing.
     
    #43 Scott J, Aug 23, 2001
  4. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    DSM, dial it back a notch or two!

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DSM:
    This is the dumbest argument I have ever heard. First your [sic] calling God a lair [sic] and saying He didn't mean everything He ever said. &lt;snip&gt; To say otherwise is insane.    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If you think the argument is "dumb" please post evidence to support your position or evidence to disprove your opponents position, but calling his argument "dumb" is not evidence, it is argumentum ad hominem.

    Secondly, he did not call God a liar (or a lair either! :D ). Please try to be honest in your discussion.

    Thirdly, disagreeing with you is not necessarily "insane."

    Several posts ago I invited you to post evidence to support your position. You have not, as yet, done so. Please feel free to do so now. Thank you. [​IMG]

    The Forum Moderator and King James defender. :D
     
    #44 DocCas, Aug 23, 2001
  5. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CJoshuaV:
    Wells,

    I don't know how many different ways to say this. The Bible is the heart of my faith and my soul authority. You don't think the "other cheek" passage is literal, I do. I don't think the Romans passage is intended to condemn homosexuality, you do.

    We both use exegesis to understand the Bible, we just differ on specifics. Neither of us "believes in the Bible" more than the other.

    Joshua    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You may have convinced yourself of this, but it is not true. Rather Your Own Puffed Up Knowledge is the heart of your faith and is your own soul authority. You also rely on eisogesis rather than exegesis.

    It is sadly apparent who the Bible believer is.

    I Tim 6:20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”—
    21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.

    I John 2:4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
     
    #45 Chris Temple, Aug 23, 2001
  6. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert New Member

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    Just thought I would comment on a couple of things

    wellsjs wrote:
    *******************************************
    Jehovah's Witnesses take this passage, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," and change one word so that it reads, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." From this, they develop a complete cult that denies the Godhood of Jesus Christ.
    ******************************************

    The JW's were dening the Godhood of Jesus Christ long before they learned Greek and noticed that God has no definite article i.e. 'the' (which I must admit, is rather unusal for the NT). They, like most cults, denied Jesus Christ's diety from the start, and only later got organized enough to have "Greek Scholors" make their own translation. But I agree with you on their use of the Bible.

    *****************************************
    If homosexuality is "OK with God," then would you please ask Him to apologize for what He did to Sodom and Gamorrah? You must also take away or add to some passages in Genesis, Leviticus, Judges, Matthew, Mark, Acts, Romans, 1 Cor, 2 Cor, Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, 1 Thes, Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation.
    *******************************************

    God killed Sodom and Gamorrah for much more then just homosexuality.

    Ezekiel 16:49-50

    "NOW THIS WAS THE SIN of you sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not HELP THE POOR AND NEEDY. They were HAUGHTY and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen." (ephesis mine obviously)

    One of their detestable things was obvioulsy the sin of homosexuality, as the story in Genesis clearly shows. But we shouldn't neglect their other sins, especially that of helping the poor and needy, less we be just as bad. I find it rather ironic that many conservative yet otherwise well of Christians are quick to point out Sodom and Gommorroh for the sin of homosexuality, but neglect to notice (or fear) that their apathy toward the poor in this country or especially in other countries puts them in the same boat; performing the actual sin of Sodom.
     
    #46 Pete Richert, Aug 23, 2001
  7. Bro Shaun

    Bro Shaun New Member

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    Bro. Cassidy,
    What more proof do you want. I have already shown that the KJB was superior in it's translation. I have shown that the NIV and the others take away fundamental beliefs of the faith. If showing that a version takes away the blood, virgin birth, sinless sacrafice, and takes worship away from Jesus, what else can I do. Anything that takes away from Jesus is not of God, can you agree with that?
     
    #47 Bro Shaun, Aug 23, 2001
  8. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DSM:
    What more proof do you want. I have already shown that the KJB was superior in it's translation. I have shown that the NIV and the others take away fundamental beliefs of the faith. If showing that a version takes away the blood, virgin birth, sinless sacrafice, and takes worship away from Jesus, what else can I do. Anything that takes away from Jesus is not of God, can you agree with that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All you have shown is that they are different. You presume the KJV is correct and thus any version which differs from the KJV must be wrong. But you have not shown us WHY you assume the KJV is correct, nor WHY the modern versions are wrong. You say the KJV is doctrinally superior but the bible teaches us doctrine, not vice verse. What evidence, from the MSS to historical citations can you offer to show that the KJV is right and the MVs are wrong. Opinions are fine, but they are like ears, everybody has a couple of them. Again, what evidence can you post that the differences between the KJV and the MVs make the MVs wrong?
     
    #48 DocCas, Aug 23, 2001
  9. Kiffin

    Kiffin New Member

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    While the NRSV has generaly been associated with liberal scholarship...a very fine conservative NRSV study Bible is the NRSV Harper Study Bible (which has Reformed theological leanings) which has Dr. Harold Lindsell as Editor. I really enjoy using it in my studies.
     
    #49 Kiffin, Jun 29, 2002
  10. Jude

    Jude <img src=/scott3.jpg>

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    I'm aware of the above study Bible, and it is generally a very good one. I think that the NRSV folks really blew it when they did not market a conservative study Bible.
     
    #50 Jude, Jul 2, 2002
  11. Kiffin

    Kiffin New Member

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    I agree Jude. The NRSV Harper (not to be confused with the Harper Collins) is very good. I am not sure but I though you could get the NRSV in the Life Application, Student Bible (which are conservative) but I do not believe they sought to appeal to Conservative Evangelicals though Robert Webber a well known Conservative Evangelical uses the NRSV.
     
    #51 Kiffin, Jul 2, 2002
  12. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    Kiffin:

    Here is the NRSV page at CBD: http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/cms_sp/66153146?sp=57649

    They don't list any Life Application Study Bible, but the Harper-Collins and Harper Study Bibles are listed here: http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/cms_content/66153146?page=191673&sp=57649
     
    #52 Chris Temple, Jul 2, 2002
  13. Clay Knick

    Clay Knick New Member

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    The NRSV Harper Study Bible is an excellent
    resource for Bible study. The notes have
    been expanded from the original edition.
    The translation is fair to good, I just
    find it too revised and a little too inclusive
    for my tastes. I use the ESV, RSV, and
    NASB for detailed study.
     
    #53 Clay Knick, Jul 17, 2002
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