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Pet Peeve about Baptists

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ScottEmerson, Sep 30, 2002.

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  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Personally the brethren at Little Bethany Primitive Baptist Church don't use this terminology of... Inviting Jesus Into Your Heart... but if others want to do it that is between them and God... I'm not their judge!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
    #21 tyndale1946, Oct 1, 2002
  2. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    The passages indicate that a different idea than the literal Christ is meant. Sola Scriptura, right? If we know that Stephen saw the literal Jesus Christ in Heaven, and we know that the literal Holy Spirit indwells the believer, then something must be meant by having Christ dwell in our heart.

    Let's examine Ephesians 3:17, shall we? The verse prior specifically states that the Spirit dwells in the inner man. From Strongs, the word for dwell gives a definition of "metaph. divine powers, influences, etc., are said to dwell in his soul, to pervade, prompt, govern it." If, as I would maintain, that this expression is metaphor, then Jesus Christ does not literally endwell a person's heart. The same idea can apply to the other two verses you have presented as well.

    Is the literal Word in our hearts? Is the literal Christ in our hearts? Both are metaphor.

    So where is the literal Christ? Do both the Spirit AND Christ live in us?

    Acts 2:33
    Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    Can you not see who is where - literally? In 22 separate verses, the Bible explicitly states that the literal Jesus Christ will be sitting at the right hand side of the Father in Heaven. There are 3 statements that seem to indicate that Christ lives within us. On further examination, two merely say Christ in us - making no claim to a literal Jesus in us. The other uses a word that can be read as metaphor. Using the evidence of the whole of Scripture, we see that it SHOULD be read as metaphor.

    Edited to note this: In the NIV version, I was able to find using a search 22 verses of Christ sitting at the right hand of God. The previous use of six or seven was through a search of a different translation, hence the difference.

    [ October 01, 2002, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: ScottEmerson ]
     
    #22 ScottEmerson, Oct 1, 2002
  3. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    If using the terminology, 'of inviting Christ into your life,' is not wise then we better correct the Apostle Paul in Colossians 1:27. 'Christ in you, the hope of glory.' Apparently, if you don't have Christ in your like there will be no future reward of 'glory.'

    I also would say to be theologicall correct the Father lives in our heart as well as the Holy Spirit. If you don't agree with this previous sentence then you do not believe in the Trinity.

    Calvinistic bias is evident in that they don't want man to have any part in personal salvation. Therefore, you are not allowed to say, 'Invite Christ into your life.' Without Christ in our lives there is no eternal salvation.

    This narrow view merely shows the lack of good theological training in the local church. Sincere people but no training . . . .
     
    #23 Ray Berrian, Oct 1, 2002
  4. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet New Member

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    I don't believe we would not allow a man to "Invite Christ into his life." but we would affirm that, unless the Father draws him, this prayer would never cross his lips, nor would he in any way want to have anything to do with inviting Christ. in Christ
     
    #24 weeping prophet, Oct 1, 2002
  5. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Weeping Prophet,

    I'm glad for your first sentence, but the rest of the post sounds like the 'party line' to me.
     
    #25 Ray Berrian, Oct 1, 2002
  6. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    But how do we define Christ in us? Does he take residence in our heart? I would say that Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father right now.

    I think this is the point of John 14, but I would add that the three are distinct as well. They each have different roles in God's relationship with man.
     
    #26 ScottEmerson, Oct 1, 2002
  7. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Scott Emmerson,

    I agree with you about how God the Spirit is active now and takes residence in the lives of His people. Also, we agree that Christ is in Heaven at the right hand of the Father.
     
    #27 Ray Berrian, Oct 2, 2002
  8. ForumChaplain

    ForumChaplain Guest

    This brings up the question, does not christ posess all the attributes of the Godhead. Would not his omnipresence clear us why it is ok to say, "Christ in us"?

    If we do not limit The Father and The Holy Spirit, can we/should we scripturally limit Christ???

    [ October 02, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]
     
    #28 ForumChaplain, Oct 2, 2002
  9. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Where do we get the idea of omnipresence for the Spirit? Does the Holy Spirit reside in the hearts of unbelievers? How do we define omnipresence?

    Very interesting questions...
     
    #29 ScottEmerson, Oct 2, 2002
  10. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Scott Emmerson,

    I believe that God is present everywhere in the world, universe and in the lives of God's people. I don't think because we say that the Holy Spirit is not in the lives of sinners, that this mitigates against Omnipresence. If any sinner wants the benefits of the Cross all he or she has to do is believe in what Christ has done in taking away sins. Don't you think Omnipresence means that God is not hidden away from our world but rather is very deeply involved in our kosmos?

    I am sure there are other explanations in this matter.
     
    #30 Ray Berrian, Oct 2, 2002
  11. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Post deleted for irrelevance to the topic at hand. Please keep your posts on topic.

    [ October 03, 2002, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
    #31 Ray Berrian, Oct 2, 2002
  12. TomMann

    TomMann New Member

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    I have a major problem with trying to ascribe a physical location to any of the three members of the trinity. And I also believe there is a major misunderstanding of the trinity. Here are two examples in trying to understand this trinity.

    (1) As the sun (in the sky) has three parts, the burning body that we have to avoid looking directly at, the light which prodeeds from to illuminate, and the solar energy which gives nurture and warmth. If any of these three was missing, we would not have the sun, and life as we know it would cease. Now we might try to ascribe location to the burning body in the sky, but how do you ascribe location to the light and/or solar power. We can only know it's source, without fixing its location. We have "Christ in us" if we are walking in the light, and by walking in the light recieve the nuture of the Spirit.

    (2) As kids we were thaught that three things are required to have fire. Fuel, air, and heat. Believe they call it the fire triangle. If any of these three components is missing there is no fire. So I'll introduce the "I AM" trinagle, which consists of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If any of these three is not, then there is no "I AM"
     
    #32 TomMann, Oct 4, 2002
  13. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    What does the Scripture say about omnipresence? Is omnipresence something we just talk about, or is it backed up in Scripture that all three forms of the Trinity are omnipresent?
     
    #33 ScottEmerson, Oct 4, 2002
  14. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    Ray, who is biased? This statement, along with many others you have made, reflect an obvious bias against the orthodox Protestant position. No Calvinist would dare deny that there is no eternal life apart from Christ.

    Now, while the Calvinist clan might not go around saying, "Invite Christ into your life," they are busy using biblical terms like repent, believe on Christ, place your faith in Christ, etc. Please stop using caricatures which have no place in reality.

    Rev. G
     
    #34 Rev. G, Oct 4, 2002
  15. JohnB

    JohnB New Member

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    Let's not forget Galatians 2:20, not I who live but CHRIST WHO LIVES IN ME.
     
    #35 JohnB, Oct 4, 2002
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