Why Calvinists Preach and Teach the Gospel

What do you do with this???

"And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:" (Acts 18:27)

I believe that Hebrews 11:6 is totally to the born-again child of God.

"One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple." (Ps. 27:4)

After all, wasn't David a saint???

While we're at it...

"As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me." (Ps. 55:16)

Was David not already eternally saved???

 

Calvinism appeals to "choice" and Calvinists choose to be divided on whether they deny that or endorse it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Primitive Baptists don't appeal to choice because we believe that the only "choice" made in regards to eternal salvation was that of God before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4). I guess you could say that Primitive Baptists are consistent.

 

Chappie,

I wanted scriptural proof that GRACE comes through faith, which is what Ray said. Not salvation.

I already believe that salvation comes through faith. We are justified by our faith.

But where does it say that grace comes through faith? I believe scripture says exactly the opposite--that faith comes through grace.

 

The bible says that we are saved "by" grace, "through" faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. It is through our faith that(Grace)God saves us.

Now, my words are laced with scripture; the actual scriptures are easy to find. I now leave it to you to turn them around and make them say, "that we are saved by faith through grace".

 

I am not the one twisting things.

Ephesians says our SALVATION comes by grace. It is grace that brings us our salvation.

We believe through grace. It is grace that brings us the faith that our salvation comes through.

See the verse that Primitive Baptist posted:

And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:" (Acts 18:27)

Their faith came through grace. And look at this one:

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him , but also to suffer for his sake. (Philippians 1:29)

Our faith is a gift. Our faith come to us by grace. That's why salvation is not of ourselves, that's why we are His workmanship, because even the faith that we receive our salvation through is a gracious gift to us.

Saying that grace comes through faith gets it exactly backwards from what scripture says. Scripture says our faith and our salvation are gracious gifts.

[ September 17, 2002, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

 

NT:5485
charis (khar'-ece); from NT:5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV
By God's divine "influence" upon the heart,(grace)we are saved through our faith which God gave us. We do not save ourselves, god saves us...

[ September 22, 2002, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Words of C. H. Spurgeon.
It is often said that the doctrines we believe have a tendency to lead us to sin. I have heard it asserted most positively, that those high doctrines which we love, and which we find in the Scriptures, are licentious ones. I do not know who will have the hardihood to make that assertion, when they consider that the holiest of men have been believers in them.

I ask the man who dares to say that Calvinism is a licentious religion, what he thinks of the character of Augustine, or Calvin, or Whitefield, who in successive ages were the great exponents of the system of grace; or what will he say of the Puritans, whose works are full of them?

Had a man been an Arminian in those days, he would have been accounted the vilest heretic breathing, but now we are looked upon as the heretics, and they as the orthodox. We have gone back to the old school; we can trace our descent from the apostles. It is that vein of free-grace, running through the sermonizing of Baptists, which has saved us as a denomination. Were it not for that, we should not stand where we are today. We can run a golden line up to Jesus Christ Himself, through a holy succession of mighty fathers, who all held these glorious truths; and we can ask concerning them, "Where will you find holier and better men in the world?"

A defense of calvinism. C.H. Spurgeon

St. Augustine (c. 354-430 A.D.), Confessions, 12.14:
How hateful to me are the enemies of your Scripture! How I wish that you would slay them (the Jews) with your two-edged sword, so that there should be none to oppose your word! Gladly would I have them die to themselves and live to you! Peter the Venerable – known as "the meekest of men, a model of Christian charity"Yes, you Jews.

John Calvin A Response To Questions and Objections of a Certain Jew.
Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.Excerpt from "Ad Quaelstiones et Objecta Juaei Cuiusdam Responsio," by John Calvin; The Jew in Christian Theology, Gerhard Falk, McFarland and Company, Inc., Jefferson, NC and London, 1931.

Gen 12:1-3
12:1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
KJV

[ September 22, 2002, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

You continue to refer us to Spurgeon, Just wanted to share a little on the man and demonstrate why i have just as much or more respect for you as i do for Spurgeon. Tis a risky business to put a man on a pedestel...

If these men are as Holy as Mr. Spurgeon claims them to be, then i am a fool to doubt them, but if they are men; just as you and I, perhaps to question them cannot be all that wrong..

If you are interested Ken, I would like to discuss scripture with you. Difficult to ask questions of St Augustine, Calvin & Spurgeon.

If you are not, then i will respect that too...

[ September 22, 2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Did I really assinate anyones Character, the information is all over the internet for anyone to see. Not a single word is my words. They are all part of the historical record. Believe it or not, some of Mr. Spurgeons remarks i did not post out of respect. My aim is to show why I call myself a Christian.

I too am shocked that you would lift him up as a saint to influence others without being totally open about the fact that he is a man just like anyone else. I try to discuss scripture with you and you bring up Spurgeon. Well, who is Spurgeon, can i consider him more led by God than anyone else.

John Calvin had some serious character problems just like you and I. If i have the gumption to disagree with you, why do i have to be wrong because i disagree with John Calvin. Anyway, do we do anything to improve the character of these men by hiding shortcomings.

Character assination, means that I lie in order to degrade ones character. Just wanted everyone to see why it is so important that we stick to God's words, rather than man's words.

 

Chappie,

You owe Augustine a huge, huge apology. Don't you realize he was talking about this:

(Heb 4:12 NKJV) For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

And to this:

(Rom 12:1 NKJV) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

(Rom 8:13 NKJV) For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Again, I am saddened by your vicious attitude of character assasination, and now clearly demonstrated error in the use of the quote from Augustine.

Ken</font>[/QUOTE]Luther was even worse....

The words are not mine Ken...
Ask your Jewish friends what St Augustine was talking about.

Comments From A Jew Concerning what is revealed here after i extended an apology to him..

Sorry to see that you are down over this, but glad to see that someone else has finally realized just how much the "Early Church Fathers" loved the Jewish people.

As a Messianic Jew, I cringe whenever someone invokes any of the mentioned names, as though these men actually were taught or walked with Yeshua.

I have often been labeled a "heretic", because I do not "follow" the teachings of the Diache or the "fathers" because of their Anti-Judaic heart, for it is out of the abundance of the heart that they spoke those things.

I leave their judgement to G-d in that matter, but I will with every fiber of my being try to steer people as Rabbi Sha'ul tried to steer people, and that is to follow the example of Messiah Yeshua.

That should be the heart of any disciple of Yeshua, to observe and follow His example in all things.

Shalom and Blessings,

 

Then you recant the use of the quote from Augustine?

Ken</font>[/QUOTE]THEY ARE NOT MY WORDS....
Can you recant the words in the sermons that you recommend that Spurgeon preached as tho they were your own...

Type in the words "antisemitism of the early church fathers" and see what you get.

If the truth be told, as the beneficiaries of the good of what the early church fathers taught, if we owe anyone an apology, it's the Jews...

[ September 22, 2002, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]