Did Mary Have a Choice?

I cannot divorce this question from Open Theology.

If Mary could have refused then God must have had a Plan B - and what if the next virgin had refused? Plan C?

The ultimate destination of Free Will theology is Open Theology - It has to be! There is no other possibility.

I don't mean to sound sac-religious here but just think about this--of course, God choise Mary and Mary choise to live in the will of God found in the word of God--we know that--she choise willingly---but suppose she would have rejected God's plan to use her---the question is--is there anything too hard for God?? Would it have been inpossible for God to have found another virgin in the same tribe as Mary?? Of course--those questions really don't have to be answered, do they!! The truth is--Mary didn't run, did she!! So we'll never have to worry about what else might have been, do we?? Aren't cha glad that Mary was right slap dab in the middle of God's will?? Say, reader---are you there?? Are you, too, slap dab in the middle of God's will?? OH, He ain't gonna use you for a virgin birth---He doesn't have to do that again---but He is steadily doing other things that He wants to involve you in---and He ain't gonna involve you unless you are slap dab in the middle of His will found in His word!!!

Your friend,
Blackbird

Of course Mary had a choice, just as we all have choice today. The Bible teaches choice even in the OT. It appears this question has allowed the ugly falsehood of predestination to rear its head once again.

Now therefore, fear the LORD, serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the River and in Egypt. Serve the LORD! And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. (Joshua 24:14-15 NKJV)

It is plainly stated in this passage that there is choice involved. The passage doesn't say that Joshua told the Israelites "go and do what you were predestined to do." He says "choose for yourselves." Free choice - it's in the Bible!

"Mary hoped that God was correct in His assumption that she might be the one to bear God the Son." Oh, come on now. Mary was Mary and GOD is GOD. Could she bring the Father to see the error of His ways. No, she didn't have a choice. On the road to human sovereignty we sometimes draft closely behind each other and fall into the ditch, eyes wide open, but not seeing, or roll down boldly from the throne of grace. May He forgive us.

Originally posted by Keith M:
Free choice - it's in the Bible!

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Perhaps one day you can take up the issue with the apostle Paul as to how much "free choice" he had after God knocked him down to the ground and made him temporarily blind on the road to Damascus.

[ December 21, 2002, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Ken H ]

Keith M - You wrote - Free choice - it's in the Bible!

How much of the Bible was addressed to the whole world and how much of the Bible was addressed to God's People?

More to God's People than the Whole World......Look it up.

Can God's People Sin? Of course - Being the people of God does not preclude making choices to sin or not sin. Your example is an admonition to God's People. This example will be followed in thousands of churches today as God's man admonishes the people to obey God. Why? Because God's People can choose to sin or not sin.

But becoming God's People does preclude making choices. Did Israel freely choose God? No, God chose Israel. Our of all the nations of the earth God chose one for his own - Israel, the Elect Nation of God.

If God chose Israel before they knew Him.
And God chose John the Baptist, before He was born.
And God chose Mary, to be the Mother of Jesus.
And God chose Paul, to be the Apostle to the Gentiles.

Why would it ever bother you that God chose you before you were born?

Man, you're in great company!

Have a Great Sunday!

If light had a choice when God said, "Let there be light:", then perhaps Mary had a choice when He said, "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS." Let us remember,
"Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

As far as choice, it's a catch 22. If God's plan for us is to make our own choices, and He knows the outcome, is it really choice?

That's like asking if God can make a rock so big even He can't move it.

It's a silly question. God gave us free will as we understand it. Let us each therefore use that gift responsibly.

I quote a person for whom I have great respect - myself -

"The ultimate destination of Free Will doctrine is Open Theology - It has to be! There is no other possibility."

Ask Clark Pinnock. He has already made the trip.

May I use an analogy? Thank you.

I think of it in the same way I think of electricity. Just like static electricity that builds up in the atmosphere seeks a path to ground. God was seeking someone who was willing to serve Him. All that is needed is a path of least resistance. Mary was that path. She offered the least resistance to God's will. This willing path attracted God's favor.

Certainly God could have used anyone He wanted. If Mary had not been willing she would not have been offered the blessing. God would not have had any problem finding a chaste woman willing to serve Him. God,in His foreknowledge, knew that Mary would be receptive to His will, therefore she was named in His Word.

Just my two cent's worth.

Originally posted by latterrain77:
No. Mary did not have any choice in the matter. None of us do. We "think" we have free choice, but in reality the myth of "free choice" is just an illusion. There is an "appointed time" for everything (Ecc. 3). Mary's beautiful comments indicate her LOVE for GOD and it was an appointed fact that she would respond as she did. It is GOD himself who put those words in her mouth.

latterrain77

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Please, forgive me if I am rude as I am used to posting to a sports board where there is a more spirited and blunt give and take with discussions. Fatalism is so antiChristian and so anti Bible that I am surprised you are even on this board. If there is no free will then absolutely NOTHING matters Fatalism, however, isn't true. It matters what we do, what we think, what we say. We make choices every minute of every day. The biggest choice is what will we do with Jesus. God choose Mary because she was the perfect (fit) person on the face of the planet to be and do what needed to be done for Jesus. Yes, she had a choice, as we all have choice about everything we do, but, God choose her because she was the kind of person who would not say no. God doesn't make mistakes, if Mary had said, "No." then He would have made an error in judement. The whole Bible is base on the fact that we must make a choice. You can choose to believe that or not.

We make choices within the confines of our nature. An unregenerated person cannot choose to come to Jesus. He must be born again, from above, first. That is not fatalism. That is dealing with spiritual reality.

Originally posted by Artimaeus:
The biggest choice is what will we do with Jesus.

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Sorry, but Jesus is not on the auction block for you or I to do something with. The biggest choice belongs to Jesus and what He will do with us. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[ December 26, 2002, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Ken H ]