Evangelist Teen Ministry Question of Doctrine

I don’t believe it…

I agree completely with Aaron on a subject.

You have spoken well brother.

 

hrhema,
I have posted many verses to show where I and many others stand. I asked for you to give the verses where the Bible says it is ok to remarry.

And as Justified has said and Jesus has said... the Pharisees came to him, tempting him. Jesus replied,"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female. And said, for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Evan is married, to two women right now. Matt 19:2-6 (Justified's quoted verses; Matt 5:27-33, Matt 19:2-9, Mark 10:11-12,Luke 16:18, I Tim 3 and Titus 1.There is also I Cor 7:27.

Evan also doesn't think he should have to tell the Pastors of the church about this problem. He would rather hide it. Just as the child caught with his hand in the cookie jar, so does he hide what is wrong.

If he were to have this ministry and have only the teens do the preaching, he would be ok to alot more churches than just the very liberal or non-Baptist. But I will never hear him or his ministry in our Baptist circles, because we won't accept this. Am I not allowed to believe what the Bible says?

Evan also asked for the opinions of us. I gave mine and told him to go ahead, in his own churches. I told him my opinion, and was accused by others, of being judgemental. Then I get hit with being accused of not using the Bible verses to back up my stand. And to top that off, I was judged... by a liberal!!

 

Olive,

Didn't you know that this is the one time that it is OK to judge?

"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version

 

Evan,
You were divorced one time so Christ has forgiven you for that divorce one time. We don't have to continue asking forgiveness for something that God has forgotton. Burden is gone. We only receive forgiveness for a sin once, unless of course we commit it again.

 

Cojosh,

Yes, forgiven by God and us, but he still has the consequences of these sins.

"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version

 

The only ones who cannot remarry are those who had no real grounds for divorce.

Those who say Evan has no grounds for remarriage don't understand what divorce is, and since they don't understand the doctrine, it is perhaps best they cease advising on the subject.

 

Advising wasn't asked. Opinions was. And again I'm being judged for my belief. I am constantly being told I am judging, but I gave all the verses to back it up. So is God not supposed to advise either when we don't agree?

 

And where is the verses for remarriage? God didn't say anything about when the divorced occured, either. Consequence is painful. And not fair. But fair isn't in the Bible either.

 

Hey Aaron, who said this?

 

Justified wrote:
Yes, forgiven by God and us, but he still has the consequences of these sins.

What do these consequences require Evan to do with the remainder of his life?

 

Hey Aaron, who said this? </font>[/QUOTE]I did. And this was before I knew anything about the grounds of his divorce, or before he said anything about being remarried.

It doesn't matter though. Paul's advice was that those loosed from a wife (lawfully) should remain single and serve the Lord whole-heartedly.

I also said this: "I can tell you this, unless I was convinced you would remain celibate I would forbid any of my daughters from setting foot in a church where you held office [until you married.]"

[ August 16, 2002, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]

 

Cojosh,

If Evan is serious about being a servant of the Lord, there are plenty of things for a divorced/remarried person to do in the church.

But one thing is for sure, he can not head up a ministry or preach or be a deacon.

"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version

 

If you are using that quote to support remarriage, I suggest taking the whole chapter into consideration.

1. I Cor 7:1-7 Have a wife, don't fornicate.

2. vs 8-9 Unmarried & widows marry or not

3. vs 10-16 Divorce, reconciliation

4. vs 25-28 Virgins, to marry is not sin

5. vs 29-40 virgins and married, caers in Christ

 

"Moses permitted divorce as a concession to your hard-hearted wickedness, but it was not what God had originally intended. And I tell you this, a man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery-UNLESS HIS WIFE HAS BEEN UNFAITHFUL. Matthew 19:9.

Justified this is all anyone needs is a writing from the Lord Jesus. JEsus said a man who divorces his wife and remarries commits adultery unless his wife was unfaithful. This also applies for a woman.

Now I believe EVan has made it very clear that his wife moved out to live with another man. You don't move out to live with another man to remain celibate.

Again you cannot prove by what Paul wrote in Timothy that he was not saying to the men of that day they could not have more than one wife because polygamy was allowed. I believe that Paul would have directly said a man who has been divorced legitimately or widowed cannot preach or be a minister if that was true. I don't believe he would left it up in the air. I don't believe Paul would believe Christians would go against Jesus teaching about divorce and remarriage and judge someone.

 

And because of the version you use, this mistranslation leads more into the sin of adultery. Properly translated, the word used is fornication, not unfaithfulness. Fornication is before marriage (see the lists for fleshly sin to back this up, in Matt 15:19, Mark 7:21, & Gal 5:19). Doesn't what God originally intended mean anything?

 

Evan my 2 cents worth

The Matthew 19:9 doesnt say it is right to remarry - it merely states it is ok to divorce unfaithfulness - fornication - adultery

You are leading youth - as long as you present the truth - I see no issue as long as you dont teach what you did was right. You committed a sin, in remarrying, sorry that's how I see Scripture stating it. Your divorce fine, but your remarriage while your ex-wife still alive sorry.

Mark 10:10-12
As to another point on Matthew 19 passage - even if it was fine to remarry - you caused your ex-wife to sin by allowing her to remarry - yeah yeah the fornicating and stuff I know However you "had" an excuse you were unsaved - you dont have one now

Acceptable case of remarriage is death and death alone! Even in your heathen, pagan, unbelieving, damned to hell and eternal flames stage of life, you and your ex-wife were joined by God

Just dont become a deacon - pastor - elder until your ex-wife is dead. I might let deacon slide IF and only IF NO preaching duties AT ALL.

And Aaron because his ex-wife lives and was not stoned she is NOT dead under the covenant - and in theory she could still be saved and convicted of sin.

What then? she metaphysically dead in one sense?

 

Sularis said: And Aaron because his ex-wife lives and was not stoned she is NOT dead under the covenant - and in theory she could still be saved and convicted of sin.

What then? she metaphysically dead in one sense?

Absolutely. If there were no grounds for remarriage, there could be no grounds for divorce. Why is the fornication/adultery exception there? Because in God's eyes, the adulterer is dead.

The prohibition is against man putting asunder a marriage. God is the One who says when it's over. It's over when there's unfaithfulness.

[ August 19, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]

 

My translation is not wrong. For someone to say that is ludicrous. Why would Jesus talk about a sin that happens before marriage when he was dealing with marriage. Come on guys wise up.

The priests who translated the King James Version lived in the 1600's. At that time there was no distinction between Fornication and Adultery.
Sex outside of the marriage bed whether it was pre-marital or post-marital was called Fornication and the person who committed the act a Fornicator. To the translators Fornication and ADultery was the same.

In Biblical times a prostitute was called an Adultress. It mattered not if she had ever been married or not.

Also I could not believe the post who condemned for allowing the wife to remarry. Allowing? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard written. Allowing, like there was any way he could stop her from remarrying or cohabiting with someone else. You better read the post again because I believe the wife filed for divorce and the wife committed the sin.

I am going to say this again. You should not post words of condemnation based on faulty interpretations of scripture. You need to study and understand what Jesus was saying.

Moses gave the Jewish men free reign. A woman could refuse to fix his meal more than once and he could divorce her. Jesus was talking about all the ridiculous reasons a man could divorce his wife but he gave the only justification for divorce and remarriage.

Like I said in an earlier post you hardliners will turn the tables around if it happens to you.
Let one of your spouses cheat on you and lets see how long you stay married and lets see how long you live alone. Then let all the other hardliners point their fingers at you.