HELL?

Hi Yall,

My mention of hell can be defended. Death is Jesus Christ last enemy...Did you get that..Last. which should mean that everything else that Jesus Classifies as his enemy before death has been destroyed (or changed into something else)... thats right, old earth, old heaven, The curse , Hell, Lake of Fire....
even Satan and his fallen angels...hhmm
does this mean that if your not an enemy, you either dont exist or you become a friend

All Enemies and Death is Last...

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till, he hath put, all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Does this mean that Death has an end.. The LAST enemy.

Now here are some temporary instances where hell is described as a state of being

Pro 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: For if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Pro 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Kid didnt die, You delivered him from hell?

Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest.

belly of what?

and God is there.....

Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there .

Gods infinite.....however you want to understand it.

Don...Nothing is Eternal but God..We pass from one age (aion) to another.
One Age ends and another begins.
When time is mentioned..most of the time it is refering to the end of that present age.(aion)

Now This present age. and then the next age (new heaven,new earth,new body,new spirit but no sin,no death, no hell, no lake of fire, no curse....etc, etc...)

the purpose and need of God concerning the usage of "Hell" is limited."Hell" has an end.
the Last enemy is Death...

Smoke_Eater, Paul Says to consider all your members dead (to sin)..or "Dead in Christ".
If I were having a carnal problem with Sin. Id better consider that action of that carnal or "fleshly"member dead. Minding myself,that Im a "new man"in Christ or Im gonna have problems (within my spirit while alive ) my carnal and "new"spirit are battling for my will and it wont be fun. .It'll be "Hell"..God Keeps reminding us that he is a God of the living...While we are alive..this is what is happening whithin Us..Theres a battle for control...and those passages were parables..spiritually discerned.

Heres one for yall.."Hell" was called..Outer darkness. imagine in OT tabernacle times..its the Sabbath..No Campfires.The only light that exists is Gods Fire by night over the tabernacle.
Your on the far edge of the camp (remember, millions of people in the camp circling the tabernacle) Your on the outermost part of the camp. The tabernacle with Gods Fire by night
is in the middle. Your camped on the outermost part of the camp furtherest away from the Only light....spooky..Estranged from the light but not completely seperated.

Me2

[ November 03, 2002, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

Me2, I am not sure where you got the idea Hell is temporary. The Bible is clear on Hell being everlasting, forever and for eternity. these same words are also used in the same context to describe our Almighty God.
So for you to say Hell is temporary then the same could be said for God.
Hell is not the Lords enemy it a place of torment.

THEN SHALL HE SAY ALSO UNTO THEM ON THE LEFT HAND, DEPART FROM ME, YE CURSED, INTO EVERLASTING FIRE, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS.

AND WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, SATAN SHALL BE LOOSED OUT OF HIS PRISON, AND SHALL GUT TO DECEIVE THE NATIONS...AND THEY WENT UP ON THE BREADTH OF THE EARTH, AND COMPASSED THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS ABOUT, AND THE BELOVED CITY: AND FIRE CAME DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN, AND DEVOURED THEM. AND THE DEVIL THAT DECEIVED THEM WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE, WHERE THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, AND SHALL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER-Rev 20:7-10.

It is written, WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE-Rev 20:15; HELL FIRE-Mt 18:9; Mk 9:47; DEVOURING FIRE-Isa 33:14; EVERLASTING FIRE-Mt 25:41; a FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED-Mk 9:43; THE LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE-Rev 20:10; COALS OF FIRE-Pv 25:22; UNQUENCHABLE FIRE-Mt 3:12; FURNACE OF FIRE-Mt 13:42; VENGEANCE OF ETERNAL FIRE-Jude 7; RAGING FIRE THAT WILL CONSUME THE ENEMIES OF GOD-Heb 10:27 NIV; TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE-Rev 14:10; ETERNAL JUDGMENT-Heb 6:2; EVERLASTING BURNINGS-Isa 33:14; EVERLASTING CONTEMPT-Dan 12:2; EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT-Mt 25:46; EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION-2 Thes 1:9; TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOR EVER AND EVER-Rev 20:10; THEY ARE BURNED-Jn 15:6; WHERE THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED-Mk 9:46; THE SMOKE OF THEIR TORMENT ASCENDETH UP FOR EVER AND EVER: AND THEY HAVE NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT-Rev 14:11; SHAME-Dan 12:2; PAINS OF HELL-Ps 116:3; OUTER DARKNESS-Mt 8:12; WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH-Mt 8:12; WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH-Mt 13:42; HE LIFT UP HIS EYES, BEING IN TORMENTS-Lk 16:23; AND HE CRIED...I AM TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME-Lk 16:24; HAVE MERCY ON ME-Lk 16:24.
This is the eternal destiny of most people.

And the Saints will have
Dan 12:2-AND MANY OF THEM THAT SLEEP IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH SHALL AWAKE…TO EVERLASTING LIFE.
Mt 19:29-SHALL INHERIT EVERLASTING LIFE.
Mt 25:46-BUT THE RIGHTEOUS INTO LIFE ETERNAL.
Lk 18:30-IN THE WORLD TO COME LIFE EVERLASTING.
Jn 3:16-FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, THAT HE GAVE HIS
ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
Jn 3:36-HE THAT BELIEVETH ON THE SON HATH EVERLASTING LIFE.
Ro 6:22-BUT NOW BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, AND BECOME SERVANTS TO GOD, YE HAVE YOUR FRUIT UNTO HOLINESS,
AND THE END EVERLASTING LIFE.
2 Tim 2:10-THAT THEY MAY ALSBTAIN THE SALVATION WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS WITH ETERNAL GLORY.

[ November 03, 2002, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: Matthew 16:24 ]

 

When we read scripture we have to know if "hell" gehenna is used or hades or lake of fire or just the grave. Then you have to understand each of the different usages and in what contexts they are being used.....I know, I know....most of you are saying duuuuuhhh. Well it just seemed to me that some were trying to lump all that is said about hell in to one place, when it is several.

 

rkbo, whether you use gehenna or hades; whether you think grave or lake of fire; you're still thinking of a real place, not a state of being. I think that's why no one has responded to your first post about this.

As for the original subject of this thread, for our newer friend Matthew 16:24, I posted a couple of links on the first page of this thread dealing with where this thought that hell is the center of the earth came from, and how it's just a hoax. If necessary, I'll post them again.

 

just wondering....where in the Bible is it said that Christ came to save His people from
hell ?

 

Don,

Thanks but that is okay, I can just go back to page one and see the link. I just missed it, I guess.

 

Do the makers of the first superman movie really have the picture of hell? Probably not.

There is a real place called hell where lost sinners do go when they die.

I have heard the tape of 30 seconds of hell. One can make out the screams of the lost and the sound of the burning fire.

I do not know everything, but where in the Bible does God call hell His enemy. Hell was created for the Devil and his lost angels. Man sinned in the garden ,and death passed upon all men and Christ rejecting men die and go to hell. God does not wish men to go to hell ,but when one rejects Christ that person chooses hell because there are only two places a person can go after death heaven or hell.

 

Huh???

 

He/she is referring to the sound clip you can find at the web sites I posted links to on the first page.

However, I also posted a link that shows that the clip was fabricated (i.e., it's a hoax).

 

Here is an explanation of this wild urban legend of hell:
=========

ssource: http://www.snopes.com/index.html (look under 'religion')

Origins: This legend is quite popular among Christian groups as it "proves" Hell (and therefore God) exists. Popular endings to the story have it that the scientists ran screaming from the site, or that since the discovery conversions to Christianity are occurring at an unprecedented rate.

If there is a Hell under Siberia, scientists have yet to discover it. What we have here is an enthralling legend that's been spun off an actual event.

In 1984, an article about an experimental well in Russia's Kola Peninsula appeared in Scientific American. The Kola well reached 12 kilometers into the ground, where scientists encountered rare rock formations, flows of gas and water, and temperatures up to 180°. (That's 180°, folks, not the 2,000° usually reported in any "Scientists Discover Hell!" screed. It was hot, but it wasn't hellishly so.)

Those who did the actual drilling of this very real well did not break through to a hollow centre, and certainly no piteous screams of the damned were heard. That part -- all of it -- was pure embellishment added after this real event was turned into a legend. (Yes, we know that any number of web sites offer audio clips purporting to be the screams of the damned as recorded in the Well to Hell, and all of them sound like they could be the noise from a typical bar on a busy Friday evening.)

The report on the digging of that well and the difficulties encountered during the project were collided with someone's vision of what should have been found down there. A little exaggerating about depth and temperature, some fabrication about hollow centres and screams, and all of a sudden there was this great story to throw back at those who claim there is no God.

Though it's impossible to pinpoint when the news story about a well in Russia transformed into a story about scientists breaking into Hell or who was responsible for that transformation, we do know that in 1989 the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) aired a "Scientists Discover Hell" story and placed the event as happening in the Kola Peninsula. A Norwegian schoolteacher visiting California heard that broadcast and took the story back to Norway with him. He then mailed it to a Christian magazine in Finland. In the form of a letter from a reader, it reached a Finnish missionaries newsletter. From there it returned to the United States, reaching both the TBN people and other evangelists who then claimed they had gotten it from a respected Finnish scientific journal.

In the spring of 1990, the legend as we now know it appeared in both Praise The Lord (February) and Midnight Cry (April). Debunkings of it showed up in Christianity Today (July) and Biblical Archaeology Review (November). Even so, the Weekly World News ran the story in 1992, this time setting it in Alaska and claiming thirteen oil rig workers were killed when the Devil came roaring up out of the ground.

You can't beat that for embellishment.

 

"Hell" is another term for the grave.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of Fire. This is the second death.

…Here's another way to look at this verse is..

Hos 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death; O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction; repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.[/I]

the first death is taking away the power of death and the grave (hell).
the second death is the destruction of the validity of their function...
its no longer necessary.....where no sin and no death exist.

Some say hell and the lafe of fire is the same..Huh? self thrown into self?..
some say the lake of fire is not Gods enemy..thats its Gods punishment..
If God punishes anyone..He would be vindictive and vengeful..God IS Love,Mercy,Forgiveness..

(I dont Know....sounds like some peoples view of God is Mercy-less.
and he's holding an eternal grudge against a man the size of a grain of sand..even smaller.)

how bout this "The lake of Fire"..its not Gods enemy..many folks want to associate it with other descriptors..only the ones valid are found in a revelation..and its a vision shown to John.

Heres his Jewish viewpoint: Imagine you being a priest in OT tabernacle times..you're standing in front of the tabernacle veil. You're facing the outer court veil leading to the outside world...between you and the outer court veil is the laver of water and the brazen alter where animals are sacrificed. If you were to look. you would see a pool of water (laver) with flames appearing to be rising from its surface. actually the alter is directly inline behind the laver of water. appearing to be Flames coming off a pool of water. Its Pure symbolism.... the alter is the sacrifice of Jesus and the laver is the word of God..coals represents The Holy spirit....


Theres your "lake of fire"..
Its his method of Reconciliation.

 

Me2, please don't forget the parable of the wheat and the tares...given to us from God Himself.

 

I would focus on what Jesus said when he talked of Lazuras and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31.

We can say that it is only a parable and not to be taken literally, but consider this. Every Parable Jesus gave was given on events that concievably could happen. Jesus never gave false testimony. Any Parable He spoke of could happen. I think the same applies to Luke 16.

How could God allow people to see those suffering? I do not know. But we cant try and rationalise God into our minds. He knows what is best. We have to accept that.

 

Another question, what are your thoughts on hell as being a permanent place for those going. Some see it not as a place to dwell in fire or with Satan but just to be away from God. Of course for God not to be with us is HELL. I can not imagine.
Some doctrine says that God would never put His children in an eternal place so aweful. I believe it was United Church Of Christ, or maybe someone else. I forgot, anyway what do you all think?
Love in Christ Angie

 

That they're calling God a liar.

Jesus gave us a parable of the wheat and the tares; basically said, they won't be separated until the harvest (Second coming). At which time, the wheat (the saved) will be taken into the barn (the heavenly city) and the tares (the unsaved) will be burned (lake of fire).

This theme is repeated more than once.

Those that preach to the unsaved, "Don't worry; we're ALL going to go through the fire, God wouldn't put anyone in eternal torment"--are ignoring scripture.

 

Hi Don,
I've taken up the cause to start writing in absolutes and work the riddles in after the foundation is laid. Most of the parables that jesus spoke of concerned the present times while the believers were alive. Either during the transition of receiving their new revelations with the Holy Spirit or living with the knowledge that the spirit and the carnal spirit were warring against one another...

The parable of the Rich man and Lazarus was just that ...A Story...look at the details..
the dead people had animate bodies that required life...They were dead.

But if one were to look deeper, we see the law and grace..and the seperation between the two. we see the spiritual indifferrence between living by the law..ie a child of wrath and Living by Grace..ie a child of mercy..living under the rest of God..

This by no means discribes a person who is dead waiting for Judgement.

Anyhow, we can discuss parables if you wish. Just dont be alarmed at my viewpoints as I see most parables speaking to the present circumstances and not about the future.
and its various unknowns.

Are you looking at the absolutes..no death, no sin..and we all know we cant get away from the presents of God...He's infinite and He's Love...more absolutes to start and end with.

 

Who is in charge of hell?

When hell and the grave are tossed into the lake of fire (Rev 20) "where will they be then"? Do they "move" around the cosmos?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Revelation 14:9-10(NASB)9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.