God has provided salvation for all mankind.

Pioneer,

You have been shown dozens of verses that refute your claim. Does the Baptist church that you belong to believe/teach universal salvation, or is it just you?

"All" in the context of the verses you quote means "all nations" or "all tribes," i.e. heaven will be populated with members of all nations and tribes. It doesn't mean everyone will be saved.

 

Amen! All means all. In all 4664 times it appears in the KJV (according to Strongs Exhaustive Concordance). We ahve the choice not to save ourselves by works, or have more power than God because of choice we have choice because He gave it to us. Can't explain why but I don't try to explain it away.

 

Brian: Amen! All means all. In all 4664 times it appears in the KJV

Please look at the following:

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. (Mat 2:3 KJV)

Now Brian, do you really think every man, woman, and child in Jerusalem even knew about the birth of Jesus, much less were troubled? If you actually went through the 4664 “alls” one by one, you would find that quite often, “all” is used very loosely in the scriptures.

Pioneer,

Your objections to Dr. Bob's very good discourse is mere semantics.

 

Hang in there, Pioneer! Lots of arguments are advanced against you and scriptures are cited to attempt to contradict you, but the simple statement of Romans 11:30-32 has not been "interpreted" by our calvinist friends!

 

No in simple context though everyone was troubled by Herod. King felt bad, killed all the little boy childeren,everyone is troubled. And wouldn't they be? Wouldn't the U.S. have toubles if Bush under matrial law started killing our childeren? In simple context the word all still means all.

 

I did use Strongs to look up the meanings af each occurance of the word all. Not each scripture but the original language word translated as all. I seem to remember 43 or 45 different words translated as all. In each word there was nothing contradictory to common definition/application of the word. It, regardless of how you want to twist it, still means all.

 

Changed, no where on this thread has Pioneer discussed the Holy Spirit or any mode of conviction. Or any whys or hows of accepting Christ. His statement is very simple and not covered by the scripture you quote. Pioneer and I state the Christs' sacrifice was for everyone. And that the Grace imparted thereby, according to scripture, is a gift that the individual either accepts or rejects. The sacrifice is for whosoever will. God gives us to Jesus when we accept that gift. God draws us to the gift though the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian:
Changed, no where on this thread has Pioneer discussed the Holy Spirit or any mode of conviction. Or any whys or hows of accepting Christ. His statement is very simple and not covered by the scripture you quote. Pioneer and I state the Christs' sacrifice was for everyone. And that the Grace imparted thereby, according to scripture, is a gift that the individual either accepts or rejects. The sacrifice is for whosoever will. God gives us to Jesus when we accept that gift. God draws us to the gift though the conviction of the Holy Spirit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


In Six days God made the Hevens and the Earth, and on the Seventh day he rested.

That all the days you can find in God "original plan".

Question: If God predestined man to sin, "WHY" isn't that "day of sin", the "Eighth day", in God's original plan???

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S. Baptist:



In Six days God made the Hevens and the Earth, and on the Seventh day he rested.

That all the days you can find in God "original plan".

Question: If God predestined man to sin, "WHY" isn't that "day of sin", the "Eighth day", in God's original plan???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what??

 

I see I had to think on that thing a second. If it were all predestined then there would have been a provision for it from the get go.

 

Brian: No in simple context though everyone was troubled by Herod. King felt bad, killed all the little boy childeren,everyone is troubled. And wouldn't they be? Wouldn't the U.S. have toubles if Bush under matrial law started killing our childeren? In simple context the word all still means all.

Getting a little ahead of the event sequence there aren't you? Not everyone in Jerusalem had small children . . . breakdown!

BTW, I have been debating you Christlike. You would do well to do the same. You accuse me of "twisting" scripture because I don't agree with you. Shame on you!

Since you insist on being argumentative concerning “all,” decipher these:

And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatic, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. (Mat 4:24 KJV)

Do you claim Jesus healed 100% of those needing healing in Syria?

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. (Mat 10:22 KJV)

Does everyone who isn’t a Christian hate Christians? Some have no opinion or could care less.

But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet. (Mat 21:26 KJV)

Are we really to believe the intent of this is that every Israelite believed John was a prophet? How about the Sadducees and Pharisees who confronted, rebuked, and imprisoned him.

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (Mat 26:52 KJV)

Many career military personnel have not died by the sword. You're debating with one!

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. (Acts 3:25 KJV)

How can everyone (all) on earth be blessed if all are not saved? This is the same meaning in the verses you quoted earlier. All nations and tribes will be represented in heaven, but not every single person.

So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done. (Acts 4:21 KJV)

If everyone was glorifying God, why were there “others” who were seeking to do him harm? I’ll stop here unless you still insist “all” always means “all.” Let’s get back to reasonable debate.

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]

 

All still means all or it would be a different word. And you put forth the idea that scripture was written as events occured and not after. If you apply this logic to genisis then God created man male and female in Gen 1:27 then again in Gen 2:7 then later in
Gen 2:22 he made the female Eve again. So that would be 4 first humans in Gods image right?

 

Pioneer:
So God made it "possible" for ALL men to be saved? His atonement was equally for all and all the unregenerated man has to do is "accept" the offer. I truly do not understand how that position can be sustained. Without a doubt, it makes the effectiveness of the atonement dependent on man instead of Christ. What if no one "accepted" the atonement. That would mean that Christ died in vain.

To say that Christ's sacrificial death, which is the highest expression of divine love to man, applies equally to all men and then observe that a multitude of mankind has and is entering a Christless eternity certainly does not magnify God's love or His wisdom. Will God love those who are in hell equally with the redeemed who are with Christ in eternity? I doubt it.

All MAN HAS TO DO -- That is works, no matter how you want to define it. Man this, man that, poor God wants to save all but MAN HAS TO. I don't understand how you can hold a position that glorifies man, and reduces the Sovereign God of the Universe to a begger -- a ineffective, incompetent savior. GOD WANTS TO but MAN HAS TO before GOD CAN. All I can say is the whole concept is very man-centered instead of Christ-centered.

And I do not mean that in a personal way, because I used to believe the same way. I understand that born again, believers can disagree, because we do. I just wish everyone would pick the right side of the issue (My side of course). Just kidding.

I think the place to start is with the knowledge that God can do ANYTHING. If he desires, it is. If God wanted to save the WHOLE world why did Jesus say in John 17:9 ....I do not ask on behalf of the World, but of THOSE WHOM YOU HAVE GIVEN ME...
Which of course, means, there are those whom you have not given me, otherwise the verse would be nonsensical babble.

I believe that the atonment saved every single person that it was INTENDED to save. Not one single person was lost. Jesus saved ALL that he died for. No guess work, no maybe, no I hope I did a good job and people will like me, and accept me. No sir!!! All, without exception, that the Father gave to Jesus, were saved. Period!!! John 10:1-30.

God bless, and have a great day

James2

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

Brian: All still means all or it would be a different word.

But all is an ambiguous word used ambiguously in the Bible, i.e. "all who will." Surely we all agree on that!

Sorry, but I see no connection or correlation with your Genesis comment. Also noticed you did not respond specifically to the scriptures I quoted, because to use your line of reasoning with them would be . . . unreasonable!

James2,

AMEN!

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]

[ November 28, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]

 

James if you will tell me how you know you're one of them? Also if we couldn't choose then why have Jesus suffer in the first place? If God presdestined x number of people no matter what they did then why not just wait until all those who are predestined to be born and skip to revelation? Or better yet since it's just the few elect why not just create them and be done?