Once Saved, Always Saved

I guess that's what personal interpretation of Scripture gets you?

I'm curious... How would you personally interpret this?

James 2:14-26
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD ALSO."

Please. Follow Christ--not Martin Luther. Read the Bible. Pray. Study the history of Christianity. Don't rely on your pastor's teaching. Rely on God's. Christ established a Church and promised it would not be lead astray--that Church is Apostolic, and handed down through the generations. That Church still exists today--it's existed nearly 2000 years. That Church is Catholic.

God bless.

 

Catholics don't believe men can be saved by works. It takes FAITH to be saved. The only difference is that Catholics don't believe in personal interpretation of Scripture.

"In all [Paul's] letters there are of course some passages which are hard to understand, and these are the ones that uneducated and unbalanced people distort, in the same way that they distort the rest of Scripture--to their own destruction" -- 2 Peter 3:11

It's funny that someone comes and posts a link to this board on my Catholic website, yet, when several Catholics try to come and reply, their registartion gets declined because "only Baptists are allowed to register on the Baptist board".

It's very sad. I'll continue to pray for all of you fallen away Catholics and hope that someday you will find the fullness of truth found in Christ's one universal, holy, apostolic, church.

God bless.

Come register for my board and explain why you disagree with the teachings of Christs church... http://www.phatmass.com/phorum

 

hmmmm. Maybe this is a theological discussion.

Elsewhere, please.

 

phatmass,
We do allow catholic posts on the Bapt Board, we just do not allow them in the Baptist only areas. I must say that my dad recieved the last rites of the Catholic dogma and the Priest wanting to assure me of a little peace came and told me so at his bedside. He said my dad had made his peace with god. I said, "thank you, now we don't have to worry about purgatory correct?" The priest said,"I didn't say that". Well, to save a lot of rambling from me to get to the end of this story, I witnessed Catholic lies, first hand. My children witnessed the wresting of scripture first hand, and then Praise God (Not the God of the Catholic's), I preached at the graveside when my father was laid down. Many catholics heard the gospel that day and if they do not reject the gospel of a church and accept the Gospel of a Savior, it won't be purgatory for a while, it will be the lake of fire for eternity.

Thanks ------Bart

 

Catholics don't believe in salvation by works?
Then maybe someone should tell them that.
James isn't writting about works needed for salvation, but as a result of salvation. Two totally different things.

 

Most people who quote James to show that salvation is by works neglect to mention the passage in which James says that he shows his faith by his works, which sums up his whole point.

The Catholics should toss the Catechism if they no longer believe in works.
It's in there.
Catechism 2010, I believe.
Because of the work of Christ, they may merit salvation through good works, etc.

MR

 

Catholics do believe that man is saved by works. I used to be a Catholic. Works is very much emphasized; faith is not. In fact the message of salvation is not emphasized at all in the Catholic Church, much less faith in Christ. What is emphasized (in the realm of faith) is faith in the Catholic Church.
BTW, why do I only come across your posts in the Baptist Only forums. I spend most of my time in the Other Religions forum where the Catholics are permitted to post, and don't see you there. Why are you posting here?
DHK

 

I am currently witnessing to a Catholic, Jenny, who believes you must be a good person to go to Heaven and is thinking that she would like to go to a church where all religions are welcome.
When I mentioned Jesus, the subject was changed.
I have rarely found a Catholic who gives more that a passing nod to Jesus.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general they are stuck with what their church has taught them.
Salvation by works.

Quote from Catechism 2010

...Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others {sheesh} the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.

Catholics are saved in spite of their Church, not because of it.

MR

 

I am either saved or I am not, there is no middle ground. You cannot be saved now but might go to heaven or might not. There should never even be a discussion about whether or not you are ALWAYS saved. Saved is by defintion "Not going to hell". If you go to hell you were NEVER saved. Discuss whether you are saved now or not. It is a lot easier discussion and the Bible is very clear on it.

 

Some believe there's no way you can lose your salvation. But I personally believe the Bible nowhere teaches that we can't lose our salvation, but even says the opposite (Romans 11:20-22, John 15:6). I believe it says that those sanctified by the blood of Christ (Hebrews 10:29) and made partakers of the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 6:4) and performing miracles in the name of Jesus (Matthew 7:22) can still be damned for unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, Matthew 7:22-23, 2 Peter 2:20-21), or for apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-6), or for not bearing fruit (John 15:2, Revelation 2:5), or for not overcoming (Revelation 3:5), or for taking away from the words of the book of Revelation (Revelation 22:19).

"Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end" (Hebrews 3:12-14).

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:26-29)

But where does it say we can't lose it? You could have an everlasting diamond in your pocket, but you could still lose it. What do we do with Hebrews 10:26-31, Hebrews 6:4-8, Romans 11:21-22 and John 15:1-6?

In John 10:28, Jesus is speaking of those that continue to abide in him, not of those who stop abiding in him: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned" (John 15:6).

"Thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).

http://www.geocities.com/postrib

[ December 28, 2002, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: postrib ]

 

So, IOW, Jesus only died for our sins if we don't have any?
Those who believe we lose what God has freely given to those who believe must think salvation is by works.

I view, in my own personal interpretation, Epeshians as conclusively guaranteeing our eternal security.

Ephesians 1:4. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5. he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
6. to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
7. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace
8. that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.
9. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
10. to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
11. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
12. in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.
13. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14. who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

There it is, a guarantee from God.
Most of what people use to spout lost salvation are verses referring to those who were never saved.
Nowhere does the Bible say you will lose your salvation.
As seen above, it does guarantee that you WILL be saved.

MR

[ December 28, 2002, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: mountainrun ]

 

Only Jesus saves us, but a faith in Jesus without works cannot save us:

"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?" (James 2:14)

"The devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:19-20)

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only" (James 2:24).

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

"I have not found thy works perfect before God" (Revelation 3:2).

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away" (John 15:2).

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

Some say that once we're sealed by the Spirit there's no way we can lose our salvation. But isn't every one who has faith in Jesus sealed?

"After that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13).

Weren't the Corinthians and the Romans sealed; didn't they both "stand" by faith?

"Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth. Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand" (2 Corinthians 1:22-24).

"Thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).

http://www.geocities.com/postrib

 

=====
Quote
"Thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).
========

The natural branches were the Jewish nation.
"You" refers to the Gentiles as a whole as well.
Paul says in verse 13 "I am talking to you Gentiles."
We know there were individual Jews who were not cut off, though the nation was.
Paul is cautioning the Gentiles not to risk the same fate and the Isrealites.
He is not threatening individuals with loss of salvation here.

MR

 

I agree. If one is truly saved, there will be evidence in the works of the person. Possibly not immediately, but it will occur over time as the Holy Spirit convicts and the person grows in the Lord.

AJL

 

What part of "...hath eternal life." don't you guys understand. Hath = HAS right now. ETERNAL = lasts forever, doesn't end. LIFE = Salvation. Don't make it complicated.

 

Amen. The Bible tells us we have eternal life, not that we will get if we don't mess up.
Jesus died for all the sins of the world, even the ones that were not committed yet.
Some posters seem to be confusing a lack of evidence of a saving faith with losing salvation.
Never having it is not the same a losing it.
Trust Jesus, people.
The righteous man will live by faith.

MR

 

[ December 30, 2002, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: Artimaeus ]

 

It would be a contradiction to have eternal life then suddenly not have eternal life. If it is possible to lose the status of eternal life then you never had eternal life to begin with, you had only a potential for eternal life subject to additional criteria.

God's promise is in the here and now, not in the future with a list of additional criteria.