1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

News: Declining Churches Oppose Iraq War

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by new man, Nov 28, 2002.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 3
  1. new man

    new man New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    #1 new man, Nov 28, 2002
  2. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,864
    Likes Received:
    1,098
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's silly? Impractical, maybe, but not silly.

    And being against war does not make them "Anti-American."

    There are conservatives who are against it, and Christopher Hitchens, the darling of the American Left, is for it.

    [ November 28, 2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
    #2 rsr, Nov 28, 2002
  3. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Russ,

    It should also be noted that the Mormons - who feed off of the same sorts of social prejudices as Christian fundamentalists - are also experiencing explosive growth.

    In a secular society, fundamentalism offers those few who are turning to religion exactly what they are looking for.

    As for the hundreds of millions of Americans who think that religion is the domain of half-wits and bigots - I would argue that liberal Christianity has a much better chance of communicating the gospel to them.

    Joshua
     
    #3 Rev. Joshua, Nov 28, 2002
  4. Jim Ellis

    Jim Ellis New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    0
    In all honesty, I believe our U.S. gov't needs to get off there tails and go declare war on Saddam Hussein, and kick his rear off the planet! He's no different than Hitler was in the 30's and 40's last century! Hussein /Hitler same spirit different body, do you get the picture? :rolleyes: [​IMG] :mad:
     
    #4 Jim Ellis, Nov 28, 2002
  5. new man

    new man New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not so. In fact, according to the church's own accounts, the growth rate is declining. In 1996 the church reported a growth rate of 4.24%. In 1999, the growth rate had fallen by 44%, to 2.37%, as reported in the December 1999 issue of the official church magazine Ensign. The Seventh Day Adventists are growing faster than the Mormons.

    Well, one can formulate an argument about anything. However, the last forty years of history refutes your's.

    In the Father,

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;

    [ November 28, 2002, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: new man ]
     
    #5 new man, Nov 28, 2002
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    "You must think like us or you may suffer being labeled as anti AMerican".
     
    #6 Johnv, Nov 29, 2002
  7. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    6
    It would appear that there could be no other option but for a war on Iraq. I really wish there was another way. Either way innocent people will be maimed and killed.

    What Would Jesus Do?
     
    #7 Ben W, Nov 29, 2002
  8. new man

    new man New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think asinine would have been a better descriptor.

    No, that alone doesn't make them Anti-American but as the article pointed out, over the last 35 years or so, the pronouncements of their leaders have become virtually indistinguishable from those of secular left political activist groups. To say that these far left socialist activist groups aren't anti-American is to have one's head in the sand. The Democratic Party platform is virtually indistinguishable from the American Socialist Party platform. As the article pointed out, the leadership of these declining churches have a large lobby presence that they maintain in the prominent United Methodist Building on Capitol Hill. They have aligned themselves with the extremist left wing Constitution hating, big-government, high taxing, over-regulating, entitlement-establishing, unaccountable, irresponsible, gun-confiscating, totalitarian coddling, peace-at-any-price, ACLU card carrying, same-sex-marrying, unrestricted aborting, anything goes (thank you Cal Thomas) politicians in the pursuit of their utopian social gospel. This is what makes them anti-American.

    I don't recall reading that in the article.

    In the Father,

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
    #8 new man, Nov 29, 2002
  9. JamesJ

    JamesJ New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    0
    See... here's the problem with that...

    "Liberal" Chrisitanity doesn't communicate the gospel at all, only what feels good, only what scratches the itching ears of those who want to hear that they've been let off the hook and it's OK to remain in their sins. :rolleyes:
     
    #9 JamesJ, Nov 29, 2002
  10. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,864
    Likes Received:
    1,098
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And those of the "religious right" are not in lockstep with secular conservatism?
     
    #10 rsr, Nov 29, 2002
  11. new man

    new man New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is not the point of this discussion. It is not intrinsically wrong for a religious group to align itself with a political group or vice versa. The big difference here is the Religious Right is not composed of Socialist thugs who are trying their level best to subvert the Constitution, thereby destroying the freedoms that it grants us, nor are they secular humanists whom are attempting to hijack the title Christian. Thank God Bush will now have the opportunity to place federal judges in office that understand it is their constitutional mandate to interpret the law and not legislate from the bench. These Liberal Protestant Church "leaders" don't seem to "get it" that more often than not, the very things they rail so hard against are the only things that preserve their right to do so.

    In the Father,

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
    #11 new man, Nov 30, 2002
  12. Acts 1:8

    Acts 1:8 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me translate for Josh again:

    "Since us liberals allow more sin in our lives because to us everything is permissable, we fit right in with the lost. We have no earthly concept of what its like to be holy nor do we have any desire to, thus we can relate more readily to the world, because we are worldly"

    Josh this constant illogical dribble from you about how liberal Christianity is the mainstream in America brings only one thing to mind...

    Matthew 7
    13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
     
    #12 Acts 1:8, Nov 30, 2002
  13. Acts 1:8

    Acts 1:8 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    645
    Likes Received:
    0
    Josh, People like YOU are the reason why Christianity is so watered down and so splintered into its thousands of sects and denominations...YOU have allowed "sin into the camp." Go read Joshua 7 and see what happens when one person allows sin to enter the kingdom of God.

    [ November 30, 2002, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: AdoptedByGod ]
     
    #13 Acts 1:8, Nov 30, 2002
  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,864
    Likes Received:
    1,098
    Faith:
    Baptist
    New man, don't blame me. You brought this up:

    The problem with the article is it confuses Christianity with Americanism. Two different things. Too bad the religious right can't understand the difference.
     
    #14 rsr, Nov 30, 2002
  15. Calista

    Calista New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
     
    #15 Calista, Nov 30, 2002
  16. new man

    new man New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't "blame" you with anything.

    Seems you may need a refresher course in American history. A good place to start is the book "America's Providential History" by Mark A. Beliles & Stephen K. McDowell. After that I would suggest reading the Declaration of Independence. In the beginning of the document the authors acknowledge the "Creator's" role in the establishment of America. At the bottom of the document it reads:

    God bless America,

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
    #16 new man, Nov 30, 2002
  17. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    6,708
    Likes Received:
    1
    Why do I always have to disagree with you? Oh well, I guess that is what the board is for.

    First, I totally disagree in your classification of Mormons as fundamental Christians. ...taint so.

    Second, your last statement is obviously wrong for two reasons--number one the theme of this thread that liberalism is NOT growing on a nationwide scale, and second it is a shame to compromise to get people to church. Would you serve beer to young people to get them to come to church? :eek:
     
    #17 Phillip, Dec 1, 2002
  18. new man

    new man New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't. The ACLU is largely composed of Lawyers whose motivation has been presented to the public as something good, "protecting" the people against unconstitutional activites, even as 'protectors of the Constitution.' The smoke of their Constitutional activities has covered their wholesale destruction of the FABRIC of the Republic, namely it's MORALITY, CIVILITY, and RELIGIOUS foundations. Yessiree boy! They're bonafide patriots!

    They Support

    </font>
    • Legalized Child Pornography</font>
    • Legalized Drugs</font>
    • Tax Exemptions for Satanists</font>
    • Legalized Prostitution</font>
    • Abortion on Demand</font>
    • Mandatory Sex Education</font>
    • Ideological Tests for Court Appointees</font>
    • Automatic Entitled Probation</font>
    • Public Demonstrations by Nazis and Communists</font>
    • Legalized Polygamy</font>
    • God knows what else</font>
    They oppose:
    </font>
    • Legalized Optional School Prayer</font>
    • Sobriety Check Points</font>
    • Tax Exemptions for Churches</font>
    • Religious Displays in Public</font>
    • Medical Safety Reporting</font>
    • Parental Consent Laws</font>
    • School Vouchers and Home Schooling</font>
    • Government Ethics Committees</font>
    • Prison Terms for Criminal Offenses</font>
    • Public Demonstrations by Pro-lifers</font>
    • Teaching "Monogamous Hetreosexual Intercourse within Marriage" in Public Schools</font>
    Yessiree boy! Defenders of our freedom!
     
    #18 new man, Dec 1, 2002
  19. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,864
    Likes Received:
    1,098
    Faith:
    Baptist
    New man, you said "That is not the point of this discussion." But you brought it up.

    I have absolutely no need for a refresher course in American history, thank you.

    [ December 01, 2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
    #19 rsr, Dec 1, 2002
  20. Calista

    Calista New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't. The ACLU is largely composed of Lawyers whose motivation has been presented to the public as something good, "protecting" the people against unconstitutional activites, even as 'protectors of the Constitution.' The smoke of their Constitutional activities has covered their wholesale destruction of the FABRIC of the Republic, namely it's MORALITY, CIVILITY, and RELIGIOUS foundations. Yessiree boy! They're bonafide patriots!

    They Support

    </font>
    • Legalized Child Pornography</font>
    • Legalized Drugs</font>
    • Tax Exemptions for Satanists</font>
    • Legalized Prostitution</font>
    • Abortion on Demand</font>
    • Mandatory Sex Education</font>
    • Ideological Tests for Court Appointees</font>
    • Automatic Entitled Probation</font>
    • Public Demonstrations by Nazis and Communists</font>
    • Legalized Polygamy</font>
    • God knows what else</font>
    They oppose:
    </font>
    • Legalized Optional School Prayer</font>
    • Sobriety Check Points</font>
    • Tax Exemptions for Churches</font>
    • Religious Displays in Public</font>
    • Medical Safety Reporting</font>
    • Parental Consent Laws</font>
    • School Vouchers and Home Schooling</font>
    • Government Ethics Committees</font>
    • Prison Terms for Criminal Offenses</font>
    • Public Demonstrations by Pro-lifers</font>
    • Teaching "Monogamous Hetreosexual Intercourse within Marriage" in Public Schools</font>
    Yessiree boy! Defenders of our freedom!    </font>[/QUOTE]new man:
    While I can see why the ACLU would support some of the things you've listed (Nazis and Communists are still entitled to the rights of free speech and assembly for one), you've given no evidence that the ACLU either supports or rejects any of these things. Your word (good as it may be) is not proof.

    Anyway, the Constitution guarentees rights to all citizens--even ones that you personally dislike. This is a good thing because one day a bunch of people may dislike you and try to limit your rights.

    Cal
     
    #20 Calista, Dec 1, 2002
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 3
Loading...