Halloween

Lorelei
I once changed my mind based on posts here too.

 

Jonathan
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You forgot to include all of those pagan fertility symbols (holly, trees, etc...) used at Christmas.

Oh Yah...I forgot, we Baptist can only take so much paganism with our holidays
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The topic happens to be Halloween. There is nothing about Halloween thay has to do with Jesus. At the very least on someother holidays, they are not specifically dedicated to satan, but to Jesus. We can all further discuss christmas, later if you'd like.

 

Lor,


Ya know, I'm a little tired of hearing you talk about how much scripture you don't get from anybody, that is so untrue. Now granted, in this particular thread you haven't got any but in others you have and yet you seem to accuse others of not providing it. No one is saying your a legalist if you don't participate in Halloween, that is strictly up to you. It's legalistic to assume it's wrong for others though, now, I'm not saying you have said it's wrong for others I'm just making a point.

The point that Jonathan is trying to make here is that it really is hypicritical to say we shouldn't participate in Halloween when we do participate in Christmas and Easter. The excuse that you can find Jesus somewhere in those holidays just doesn't float, does that make celebrating a pegan holiday ok? Don't get me wrong, I too celebrate Christmas and Easter without a problem, and yes I celebrate Jesus during that time but I also do the Santa Clause and Easter bunny thing too because it's fun. Which brings me to my main point, I don't worship Santa Clause and I don't worship the Easter bunny but it's fun to think about them during those times and decorate. On the same hand, it's fun to dress up as your favorite cartoon character or actor and go around getting free candy. Yes evil seems to be real during those times, but let me tell you evil doesn't just work on those particular nights and the rest of the year it takes time off. Remember, evil can succeed ONLY if good men do nothing.

Is it wrong to dress up any other time of the year and look silly? No its not, so why would this time of year be any different other than the fact that we link it to Satan, yet the day still belongs to God so why shouldn't we use it to glorify God?

If you do not want to participate in it that is soley up to you, but it doesn't make it wrong for others.

Sue

 

I no longer have children at home, but when I did they participated in all holidays. I will admit, our church has a carnival with refreshments, games and of course, lots of candy. When my children entered the teenage years, they then went to the carnival to help, and they loved that even more.
Now, this is just my opinion, okay? But to me, it seems like most of our holidays have a pagan ring to it. This subject is a hot one in our family because it seems I'm the only one who feels this way. To me, Christmas should only be celebrated as the day Christ was born, or it shouldn't be celebrated at all. No trees, snowmen, santa clause or anything that does not pertain to Christ's birth. We have friends that refuse to put up a tree, instead they have a manger scene they put up in a corner of their house. Easter bothers me even more, Easter coming from the word "ishtar", I believe. Why wasn't this day called, "The Day of Christ's Resurrection"? At any rate, people could not give up the pagan celebrations so many years ago, and they still can't. And yes, I go along with it, to a point, mainly to keep peace in the family. But, I don't have to like it.
I'm not an educated person, but isn't there a verse in the New Testament, where Paul says you shouldn't celebrate holidays? Isn't this the verse that the "Jehovah Witness" people refer to as the reason they do not even celebrate birthdays? No one has ever been able to explain this verse to me, so I'd be very grateful if someone could.
Sue

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:
Lor,


Ya know, I'm a little tired of hearing you talk about how much scripture you don't get from anybody, that is so untrue.
Sue<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tire of hearing you push theology that is obviously not Baptist, and crying or just leaving when someone challenges you to prove it. Are you Baptist? Have you ever posted on this board under another name?


~Lorelei

 

Christians are to live in the world but to be "not conformed to the world." I don't think Halloween is a night for Christians to hide in the closet. Let your kids dress funny but not evil. Have them tell each candy giver, "God bless you!" Do the same for the kids who come to your house! Take advantage of any witnessing opportunity that the Holy Spirit may provide that night.

While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mat 9:10-13 NIV)

What better night of the year to "call the sinners" who flirt with evil?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
Jonathan


The topic happens to be Halloween. There is nothing about Halloween thay has to do with Jesus. At the very least on someother holidays, they are not specifically dedicated to satan, but to Jesus. We can all further discuss christmas, later if you'd like.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My point is still pertinent. All Saint's Day was originally intended as a fully Christian celebration. "All Hallow's Eve" was created as a part of the next day's celebration. So yes, there is a smidge of Christian heritage attached to Halloween.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KeeperOfMyHome:

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
I do feel that you aren't cutting us a "little" slack in defining this as a pagan holiday different from others. We can take any symbol and make it what we want. You are right, about the origins, but come on, tell me the theme of this one doesn't have anyting to do with devils and their dominions? Come on..now admit it, the entire theme is witches, devils and stuff that is totally against God. That is the point. A tree can be a symbol for lots of things, a devil, well, how can you make that a symbol for good? The symbol itself is not important, just what it stands for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that a very good historical case can be made for the historical Christian component of "All Hallow's Eve" if one felt the need to do that sort of thing. For the record, I agree that dressing up like devils and demons is inappropriate, to say the least.

Yet we, as believers, are notorious about compromising our consistency on matters like this. By distinguishing between historically pagan holidays that "look" evil and those that don't, we give the de facto message that style is more important than substance.

Look, I used to be a legalistic, judgemental Christian (and a Landmark Baptist to boot...I have my fundamentalist papers to prove it) and I found that I slowly had withdrawn from any meaningful interaction with our lost culture. Freedom in Christ is very scary at first but it will cause you to look for any opportunity to share His love.
And there is no more powerful witness than a conservative Baptist who loves the Lord enough to love the lost enough to hang out with them in order to build authentic, life changing relationships with them.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But otherwise, I think you and I pretty much agree. I personally don't avoid the holiday myself. My church has a veggie fest for the kids. I even give out candy. I just wanted to defend those who did abstain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that we agree way more than disagree. And let me join you in the defense of those who need to abstain. At a minimum, those of us who are on the streets on 10/31 need those of you who are in the churches on 10/31 to lift us to God in prayer.

There is more than one front in this battle. I have little doubt that you will be holding up your end.

 

Well, I certainly do not tell my children that the gifts they receive are from Santa Claus. They are aware that what they do receive is because God has blessed their dad a good job.

What exactly would you like to know?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KeeperOfMyHome:
Well, I certainly do not tell my children that the gifts they receive are from Santa Claus. They are aware that what they do receive is because God has blessed their dad a good job.

What exactly would you like to know?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you have a Christmas tree? Do you hang stockings? Do you decorate your church and/or home with "Christmas" greenery (holly, etc...)?

 

Lor,

First of all, I have not ran away from any topic, or cried (not sure how you could possibly know that even if I were). I have walked away from a dead horse which I have already provided sufficient evidence over but wasn't being recieved.

I have never once claimed to be Baptist, I used to be baptist but no longer Baptist. I have not, I repeat not ever once shared "theology" regarding this thread on holidays and the ONLY time I've shared demoniational views is on the appropriate forum of non baptist/ other religions forum.

All other posts I've ever posted on other forums, I simply talk about what I do or things I enjoy or whatever the topic may be, but to actually share "truth" in those forums I've not done.

No, I've not gone under any other name. What that would have to do with anything is beyond me, but ok.

Lor, on a personal note here. I believe you are a child of God just as I am. This means that no matter if you or I are baptist or any other denomination, fact still remains, what bonds us as sisters in Jesus Christ is the Blood of Jesus Christ. Now, I can respect you and all others on this board, but I do believe that same respect should also be given. Let's all keep that in mind during future posts.

I in no way expect you or anyone else to "accept" or "change" your ways of doing things. I agree that healthy discussion is good and even better with provision of scripture to back it up (which I have done in privious posts on other forums) but we need to also discern what is theology and what is just conversation. I don't believe that this type of conversation is theology.


In answer to Jonathan, I usually celebrate Christmas with Jesus, a tree, gifts, decorations, santa clause, family. Just like we get our son excited about Thomas the tank engine or rugrats or elmo on Seaseme St. we also get him excited about Santa Clause visiting, its fun, it's not a lie and he will always know and understand that JESUS is the real reason for the season.

Sue

 

Hi Everyone,

Whenever I have questions about Halloween or any of the other holidays, I always go to
1 Corinthians 10:14-11:1

It should answer many of your questions.

God Be With You all!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:
For the record, I agree that dressing up like devils and demons is inappropriate, to say the least.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so you notice the difference too! I thought, man I sure can't communicate at all!! Glad I finally made sense to someone! *hehe*

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:

Yet we, as believers, are notorious about compromising our consistency on matters like this. By distinguishing between historically pagan holidays that "look" evil and those that don't, we give the de facto message that style is more important than substance.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand what you are saying. I personally don't place too much value on any symbolism. I sort of stated this before by mentioning that a tree can symbolize whatever you want it to. I don't want to put too much value on any "symbol" itself, that can sometimes lead to forgetting what the symbol represents at all!

You may have some good arguments, I haven't given it much thought. I am aware of the orgins of most of our holidays, so I get what you are saying.

Is it ok to "make" the holiday Christian? That is what we did with Christmas. (or tried) I actually wrote a poem for my preschool class years ago telling them what the Christmas Tree was about. (Of course to me it was about the Birth of Christ) Was that wrong, was it right, does it matter eitehr way. Interesting suggestions and definately food for thought! I can't really say that I hold a strong opinion either way but am surely open for discussion!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:

Look, I used to be a legalistic, judgemental Christian (and a Landmark Baptist to boot...I have my fundamentalist papers to prove it) and I found that I slowly had withdrawn from any meaningful interaction with our lost culture. Freedom in Christ is very scary at first but it will cause you to look for any opportunity to share His love.
And there is no more powerful witness than a conservative Baptist who loves the Lord enough to love the lost enough to hang out with them in order to build authentic, life changing relationships with them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, you caught me on my soap box, believe me I am not the "legalistic" person I am made out to be on this board sometimes. Sure I get opinionated and challenging in a lot of the discussions here, but that is what I think it is for. The more I challenge and am challenged the more I learn and grow in the Word.

Life outside this board, you will find that I do NOT "hide" from the world. Most of my friends are not Christians (Which is another reason I crave the "fellowship and study of the Word here). I am really learning to define that line of being separate AND among them! My passion comes from mistakes I have seen myself make. You are right it can be a powerful witness, but you best be certain you are indeed grounded in the Word for you will be challenged! (I am certain that you are, I was just saying that in the "general sense) Not just in words but in deeds. That is what I was getting at. If you are not grounded firmly in the Word then you will not be a very effective witness. I say this from experience not from my soapbox!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jonathan:

And let me join you in the defense of those who need to abstain. At a minimum, those of us who are on the streets on 10/31 need those of you who are in the churches on 10/31 to lift us to God in prayer.

There is more than one front in this battle. I have little doubt that you will be holding up your end.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for standing with us and I stand with you! We all have a part to play, are we not all memebers of the same body with different functions? Not one of us is more important then the rest, but we all need to be doing our part!

Amen brother!

~Lorelei

 

Lorelei said, "Most of my friends are not Christians"

Why is that? The proper trend when one becomes saved (and I don't know how long that's been for you) is that you begin to witness to your friends. Those who resist your witness SHOULD, over time, become less and as you become actively involved in an evangelical church, you should begin to develope new friends and the nurturing of deep bonds with Christian brothers and sisters begins. Where are you in this natural process?

Now, surely someone will disect and pick apart my words. I'm not advocating "turning your back on presaved friends." But let me pose this question: how close can you stay as you grow in Christ and they don't? We human beings tend to conform our behavior according to those we hang around the most. If you hang around non-Christians most of the time, your personal sanctification process suffers, and you miss out on the brotherhood of Christian fellowship.

 

John Wells,

You make some excellent points and I am not going to pick apart your words. I have been saved for 12 years. I have not however been living my life accordingly all of that time. There was a time when most of my friends were Christians but since then I have been through a divorce and have remarried and in the last 3 years I have been slowly getting back to where I know I should have been all along.

Most of my friends are non-christians because 4 years ago I was new to this community. Most of the people I know are through my husband and most of his friends are NOT Christian. Yeah, my husband is not Baptist, he was Apostolic but not attending when we married and well, that is another thread.

I joined my church over 3 years ago, made a few friends that I did fellowship with outside of church. Some since moved away and I stopped going to church for awhile (My husband and I both did after the whole "charasmatic" thing happened. Noticing our "differences" kind of threw us both for a loop) Anyway, I started going back regularly about a year ago and I do have some friends in the Church, but not anyone I really "click" with to fellowship outside of Church. Of course I am quiet and shy and it takes me quite awhile to warm up to people. (Yeah it's not as easy to be so vocal in real life! *lol* But if you notice, I rarely share personal information even here on the BB too.) I recently changed Sunday School classes just to try and meet more people. My pastor said I need a prayer partner at least but I am too private to share personal things unless I know someone really well. I have recently met one such person in my new class and after I have the baby we will begin meeting once a week for a one on one study and prayer session. I am getting to know more and more members each day, but I still haven't met anyone that I really ssociate with outside of Church. So much of it is because it's hard to when your husband isn't part of it. I can invite them over for dinner, but then my husband will be uncomfortable or not want to go if we are invited. Now granted my husband would do so if I wish, but I know he wouldn't like it.

I have one "former" non-Christian friend that was going to church with me 3 years ago, became saved and then stopped going to church when she found out she can not have children. Since my recommitment this summer, I have gotten back in touch with her and she has been attending with me recently and it has been soooo wonderful to have at least one friend that I can share the Word with.

I have since made some major changes in my life with my recommitment in June and it has brought about many opportunities to share with my non-Christian friends. I still see them often but remember, the changes I have made were not made by my husband. There are times now that I have to turn down invitations but most of my friends are respectful to what I believe.

I guess it boils down to "It's easier when the entire family is saved and follows the same beliefs". I tend not to have a lot of friends or fellowship with a lot of people anyway. My "personal" friends are few. (I am just not super social) My family of friends through my spouse are many and I will not turn my back on any of them.

When I said I know from experience about how fellowshipping with non-believers is dangerous if you are not grounded in the Word I meant it! I have been dragged down more then I have brought them up and I have seen that and mourned that. Now it is my goal to be a beacon among this dark world, but I do have Christians that I can and do turn to, and I am at Church EVERY opportunity I can get. I am good friends with my pastors and thier wives too, we just don't do much together outside of Church, but if ever I need them or visa versa they are there!

I hope this clears things up. That is one reason I have found this board such a blessing. I desperately needed more fellowship with believers. I also live in a small farming community about 2 hours from any major metropilitan area, so options are limited for "finding other methods of meeting Christian friends".

~Lorelei

 

Lorelei,

Thank you so much for sharing in more detail your situation. Please know that you can confide in me anytime by private message if you desire. I understand your predicament, but we need to work on that stubborn husband of yours! Need to get the two of you completely "equally yoked." Keep seeking the "light" and being the "light" for those around you who do not have it, which it sounds like you are doing very well. My prayers are with you.

God bless!