Suicide

Mark mentioned chemical imbalances with bearing upon suicidal thoughts. I was just thinking on this. First, I cannot back up this with the Bible, nor do I claim it to be biblical teaching in any respect. But what I want to mention with respect to suicide is that I once happened to watch TV when an american program was on. The surgeon or professor or whatever he was said that persons which have been found to be abnormally suicidal have very often been found to have abnormally low levels of serotonin in their brain. Serotonin is some kind of hormone-like transmitter substance in the organism. Someone else might know more about this. Of course I do not dismiss the fact that sucide is also related to emotional disturbances due to different happenings in life, as well as that the enemy of souls may be involved through his emissaries. If I recall correctly the expert in the program said those who were treated with serotonin injections became stabilized and even that suicidal tendencies went away. Maybe some of you knows whether serotonin is some kind of protein or not. If it is it could be related to what kind of quality the protein has one takes in via the food. But do not let these my thoughts disturb your discussion.

Harald

 

Thank you Helen for your post on depression. It is depressing to me (no pun intended) that there are some who claim neuthetic counseling, and declare that all activity that happens inside the brain is an issue of sin. It is as if the physical brain itself is somehow immune to the effects of the fall of Adam. I have heard them argue that all depression is sin. Period. I have a family member who suffers from seasonal affective disorder--and it is real. This person loves the Lord and does not sin in reaction to the depression--but the depression is very real--especially on cloudy days.

Chick

 

Hi Chick,

Yes, depression is real. And, in a sense, I guess one could say it is the result of sin -- the sin that the entire creation is affected by! In other words, it is part of the degradation that goes on due to sin in general having destroyed the original world.

Remember the NT narrative of the man born blind?

"Lord, who sinned -- this man or his parents?..."

"Neither. This is so the glory of the Lord may be shown."

Rough memory there, not direct quotes!

But you remember. Sometimes what happens to us is the direct result of personal sin. Guilt is often connected, which is a pretty good clue!

But often, although we are all sinners with personal sins, something that happens to us is NOT a result of our own personal sin.

But no matter which way things got broke, there is one Healer. He may be the only one ever who knows exactly why things happen, even when we did it to ourselves! "Search my heart, O God" from Psalm 139, brings to mind that we don't even know our own hearts. That is why sometimes a counselor can accuse a depressed person of this problem having a connection to person sin that has to be taken care of and the depressed person will agree that maybe that is the case! We simply do not know our own hearts, so if someone sounds authoritative and convincing we sort of just go along, even though we have a pretty good feeling that it doesn't 'ring a bell.'

But after all, the depressed person is looking for a way out.... and maybe this is it....

Now, there have been times when I have really blown it in regards to some other person and I feel so guilty that I really am depressed. That's the Holy Spirit basically telling me, "Helen, shape up! Go confess your wrongdoing (which I will be more than happy to help you understand!), apologize and make reparations. I love you but there is some damage you did that we have to work with now!" And that's hard!

So only Jesus knows, really, why the depression. And He is the one we need to go to. Sometimes it helps to think of the depressed person as the sick man on the stretcher whose friends took him to Jesus. They didn't yell at him for being sick -- they took him to Jesus.

Medicine can only help. Jesus fixes.

As for your relative with SAD, get a sun lamp. Fifteen minutes to half an hour on cloudy days works wonders! Also tell her, or him, to have a few projects that are fun ready to go for a rainy/coudy day. S.c.r.a.pbooks (I have to do it that way because the program here deletes the 'cr' word wherever it is found!), a craft project with everything bought and ready to go -- that sort of thing. Then, on a cloudy day the person might just think, "Oh, that's great! Now I have an excuse to do....." That sort of attitude is a big help, too.


Harald, seratonin is a hormone (http://www.angelfire.com/hi/TheSeer/seratonin.html), produced by tryptophan, an amino acid found in avocado, banana, dates, figs, grapefruit, oranges, papaya, peach, pear, persimmon, pineapple, strawberry, tomato. All vegetables, grains, legumes, nuts (except pistachio), seeds, white meat, fish, eggs, chicken (not turkey), and white cheese. The person should stay away from sharp cheeses, red wines, hard liquor, beer, and red meats. Small amounts of white wine are OK. In other words, what the person is eating may be triggering the depression. There is also a cycle involved, as someone who concentrates on the negative in life will end up producing relatively lower amounts of seratonin than a person who is normally upbeat. It can be a nasty cycle.

Which is why Jesus is, again, the answer!

Along with eating right!

Oh, and by the way, Harald, your thoughts are WELCOME in any discussion here! You are not disturbing a thing!

Chick and all -- I'm not trying to be 'magic Helen' here or anything. With six kids and friends who have various problems and working with the deaf, I've gotten a reasonably good lay medical education along the way! So please take anything I say as you would from a friend, not a doctor, and if there is any question in anyone's mind, ask a real live doctor!!!

 

Here is another account of a person in the Bible who was depressed and wanted to die. It is none other than Moses.


Numbers 11:14-15
14 “I am not able to bear all these people alone, because the burden is too heavy for me.15 “If You treat me like this, please kill me here and now—if I have found favor in Your sight—and do not let me see my wretchedness!” (NKJV)

 

Even Elijah expressed depression & wanted to die. 1Kings 19:4

 

Recently I found out about someone I've had contact with over the last several years who unsuccessfully attempted suicide.

My opinion is that suicide, or perhaps even a credible attempt, is the ultimate and final rejection of God's stated will for the life of his children.

It's difficult to reconcile that action with the presence of biblical saving faith, but Samson may be evidence. (Thanks for the Hebrews 11 reminder, Helen.) On the other hand, Samson's suicide is complicated by the fact that it was also an act of war.

 

Thanks to Helen and Chick for your comments! Helen, some of your advice is almost identical to some I have used in counseling myself!

It is important to remember that with depression, we must treat the whole body, not just the brain, and not just our souls. They are inter-connected. Sometimes anti-depressants are not enough, and one needs to be counselled as well, but the flip side is true as well. Counseling without the help of medication can be disasterous, especially if you are dealing with one who has a perfectionsist or impatient personality. If they desire to "fix" the problem right away, yet don't "feel" better in a week after counseling, it can cause them to feel even more like a failure.

Climbing out of depression is a slow process with many set-backs along the way for some. I like to compare it to the children's game, Chutes and Ladders. Just when you think you are getting ahead, whoosh, down the slide you go! The thing to remember, is that with God's help, and with proper medication if it is needed, depression is a game that can be won!

 

Here is a Bilical perspective on how someone's body reacts to depression.

Psalm 22, especially verses 14-17. (This is also a passage of prophecy about the Lord's suffering on the cross.)

Also, for an interesting study on health in the Bible, here are a few references.

Gen. 43:28
II Sam. 20:9
Psalm 42:11
Ps. 43:5
Ps. 67:2
Pr. 3:8
Pr. 4:22
Pr. 12:18
Pr. 13:17
Pr. 16:24
Is. 58:8
Jer. 8:15
Jer. 8:22
Jer. 13:17
Jer. 33:6
Acts 27:34
III John 2

 

When we talk about suicide we have to remember one of the most profound law curtailing all killings, "Thou shalt not kill!" (Exodus 20:13)

Having said that, I recall an interesting article in the NY Daily News a few years back. There was a young man who was so distraught about loosing his girlfriend and job that he committed suicide. Apparently he remained on top of the Empire State Building after closing and in the middle of the night he took a dive. As he was going down, he regretted his act and was truly sorry. But the events happened so fast that he couldn't think anything else on the way down.

A few floors below was a DJ working on a radio program when he heard a big thump on the window. When he went to investigate he has seen a man lying across the ledge and his arm was reaching inside to grab at the open window. The DJ helped the man inside and called an ambulance. Although the man suffered minor fractures but otherwise was not harmed. When the story of the man came to light they brought him to Belleview Hospital, which has a Looney Ward.

The following day reporters visited the man who was miraculously saved from falling to the 34th Street pavements. They asked him what happened. He related his dismal story to the media and when it came to going down he just said that he was sorry and wanted to live. And in a twinkling of an eye a sudden wind threw him against the building he was about to escape, and he landed on a window ledge.

Strange, isn't it? But I see the grace of God working here. The man committed suicide, but on the way down from the top of the Empire State Building he repented his action and the Lord was merciful to him. But now when we come to the story of Judas, we see that although he regretted his act, nevertheless, he committed suicide as an ultimate act of decision-making outside of the will of God, instead of resigning his life into the hands of God. L

Thought that you might want to hear a different perspective. Keep the faith!

 

Harold, Thanks for the post, yes, it was and is a lack of serotonin in my case and supplimenting it helps, but it has side effects also.

Helen, Thanks for the encouraging message.

 

Samson committed suicide.It would depend on the persons mental state at the time.If the person was no longer capable of rational thought/logic/reason I do not think God would condemn them.How can you blame someone when they have lost the ability to reason.

In order to reach this extreme state of mind you would necessarily be suffering from a form of mental illness and God would never punish a person for not being able to comprehend their actions.

 

I don't know of any Scripture that could back up that thought. The Bible indicates that we are accountable for our sin, in fact we are condemned by it. Romans 3:9-20, John 3:18-19.

Anyone who commits suicide has travelled down a hard road of sin to be able to get to the place where they can take a life. It may begin with not trusting in the Lord's provision and his will for your life. It is always accompanied by pride, selfishness, and bitterness. Suicide is never all-of-a-sudden. It is calculated and well thought out. Of course it is irrational, but then again, all sin is irrational.

This is why depression must be treated thouroughly. Treating just the brain chemical imbalances can not fix wrong thought patterns that are sin. That part must be dealt with spiritually. No pill can keep us from sinning.

Just like any sin, suicide can be forgiven by God, but all are still accountable to God for their lives. I can't imagine standing before God someday and being asked, "What did you do with your life?" How do you tell the Lord, "I took it?"