Once Saved always Saved

Your question deserves an entire dissertation. However, I'll try to keep it simple.

Once saved, always saved ultimately falls back to something God Himself in the flesh promises us.

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand.

Simply put, if you are a child of God, "neither shall any pluck you out of His hand."

Some say that no, no one can pluck you out of His hand; but you can jump out. This is false. The phrase is "neither shall any." If you can pluck yourself out, then someone can pluck you out of God's hand. This necessarily makes Jesus, God Himself, a liar. And we all know that's not true.

There really is more to this. To discuss it in depth, we need to understand what we're talking about when we talk about those that have "lost" their salvation; it requires an understanding of the parable of the sowing of the seed, and its relation to the last two verses in Hebrews 10.

But for the moment, it's as simple as this: Is God a liar? If not, then someone who is a true believer--is in His hand--can never be plucked out.

Hope that helps.

 

I have had the same questions tour this is what I came up with:
http://www.geocities.com/flyfree432/eternalsecurity.html

Until Next Post, Adam

 

Since I am new to this I hope you will all bear with me while I learn to have online discussions.Saw the "once saved always Saved" and am enjoying reading your comments. I have questions about this too so I am putting all your scripures together to help me understand this subject.I know that I am saved,but have always thought that a person could make the decision to walk away from God if they wanted to do,which is something I don't want to do. Saved

 

Explanation for "works": Ephesians 2:10. We ALL know Ephesians 2:8-9, but often overlook the very next verse which tells us that we are saved UNTO good works.

Explanation for "not all who say lord, lord": The parable of the sowing of the seeds, Hebrews 10:39, and James 2:9.

Hebrews 10:39 seems to be misleading: We are not of them who draw back unto perdition. It sounds like we're being told that people can "lose" their salvation. But look at the rest of the verse: "but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."

Are you one who draws back to perdition? Or do you believe to the saving of your soul?

See, the problem that we run into is this concept of "believing." John 3:16 tells us that all we have to do is believe, and we shall be saved. But guess what? James 2:9 tells us that even the devils believe. So it's not just a simple "I believe," and you're saved. There's more.

And that's where the parable of the sowing of the seeds comes in. We're told of 4 types of seed in this parable, and each seed represents a type of person.

Some of the seed was immediately gobbled up by the birds; these are the people that reject Christ outright.

Some of the seed fell among rocks; these are the people that know about God, but refuse to believe in Christ (the "rock" could be likened to "hardening of the heart).

Some of the seed fell among thorns; this represents the people who go to church, sing the hymns, etc., but when "tested," they turn away from God. They believe the same way the devils believe, but they don't believe to the saving of their souls. These are the people that are mentioned in the first part of Hebrews 10:39--those that fall back into perdition.

And finally, there's the seed that grew good root, and reproduced a hundredfold. These are the people that truly believe to the saving of their soul, and their works reflect it.

How does this fit in with "once saved, always saved"? Those that believe to the saving of their soul are the sheep that Christ has told us hear His voice. Those that believe to the saving of their soul are the ones that are in His hand, and can never be plucked out.

Hope that doesn't confuse the issue much.

 

"Here are some things from your site that I have problems with:
Christ loves us, He interceded on our part and has saved us, and He is not about to lose us.

So are you saying that he doesn't love those who aren't saved?"

**No- where did I say this? The topic isn't even discussed in the essay. Isn't that presumptous? God loves everyone and I never said that he didn't.**

"Once we are saved must we continue to work out our salvation? The answer is no. After we are saved by grace through faith nothing else must be done to secure our salvation.

Works do not save. We don't have to do anything. It is the Christian heart that wants to do good works. The fruits reveals the heart."

**I don't understand? Where are we disagreeing here?**

"But the lack of good works is a definite sign that a person is not saved."

**No- it is merely evidence but not proof (or definite evidence). Like you said we can't judge.**

"In our souls, we know that we are saved and those who are saved know that they cannot continue in sin.

Where in the Bible does it say this. Matthew 7:21 says the exact opposite. Those people thought they were saved, but they weren't. "Not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven.""

**Again I am confused- what are you disagreeing with? I'm not touching on the topic of hypocrites in my essay either. I'm saying that those who ARE saved KNOW that they are SAVED. If you need me to find the scripture passages on this doctrine let me know.**

Hope this clears things up.

Until Next Post,

Adam

 

Tuor, I think we're saying the same thing.

Both of those can be compared to the devils, who believe and tremble--but are not saved, because they do not believe to the saving of their soul.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tuor:
I agree with the premice that the elect can't be taken away from God. I disagree with how this concept is being applied.

In all of my study I don't see where this doctrine is explicitly mentioned. I can see where someone may understand that this is what the scripture says, but if you look at the scriptures that is not what it is saying at all.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Once Saved, Always Saved" is better called the Preservation of the Saints. It is held to by most Baptists, although illogically, as many deny the other points of Calvinism.

It is well described by Dr. Philip Ryken of Tenth Ave. PResbyterian church:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> God has promised two blessings of salvation for the elect. First, he has promised to keep them forever, and never to forsake them. Second, he has promised to work within them so that they will never fall away from him. Both blessings are expressly promised in Jeremiah 32:40: "I will make an everlasting covenant with
them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me."

The fifth point of Calvinism is the Perseverance of the Saints. God has promised to preserve the elect. Once they are saved they are preserved, kept, and guarded by God himself (Ps. 37:28, 2 Tim. 1:12). He
will never leave or forsake the elect (Ps. 94:14; Heb. 13:5). Jesus promised that he would never cast out any who came to him (John 6:37). The elect are kept in the same way in which they were saved, namely, by the invincible power of God (1 Pet. 1:5). Jesus says, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of my hand” (John 10:28-30). The elect are eternally secure in the hands of both Christ and the Father. God keeps them safe from Satan (1 John 5:18); "the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen and protect you from the evil one" (2 Thess. 3:3).

It is true that on occasion the elect slip and fall into sin. But when they do, God catches them and makes them stand again (Rom. 14:4; cf. Deut.33:27). Even when the elect let go of God's hand, God's hand does not let go of them: "though he stumble,
he will not fall, for the Lord upholds him with his hand" (Ps. 37:24).

The elect will always be saved because they were eternally elected by grace (Rom. 8:29-30). Christ will not lose even a single one of those who were chosen (John 6:39). The Bible reasons that if Christ loved us
enough to die for us, then surely he will do as much to keep us saved (Rom. 5:9-10; cf. 8:32). "Once saved, always saved.” God's gifts and God's call are irrevocable (Rom. 11:29). When the elect are irresistibly drawn to Christ and regenerated by free grace, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit as a guarantee that they will always belong to God (Eph. 1:13-14).

Scripture also says that one must remain in faith and obedience to advance to heaven. Only those who persevere to the end will be saved (Matt. 10:22, 24:13). But the glory of it all is that the elect most certainly shall persevere to the end. Christ is both the author and the finisher of our faith (Heb. 12:2). The perseverance of the saints depends on the perseverance of the Savior.
The true believer has received a new nature in regeneration, which guarantees that he will not live in permanent, perpetual unbelief and disobedience (1 John 3:4-10). The doctrine of eternal security excludes
the possibility of a regular life of sin for true believers. How? The elect persevere because God perseveres in them. God has promised to finish what he began in the elect (Phil. 1:6). He will preserve the elect and glorify them in the end (Rom. 8:30; 1 Cor. 1:8-9). God perseveres with us, keeping us from falling away, which we would certainly do if he were not with us. But because he perseveres we too also persevere.
In fact, our perseverance is the ultimate proof of our election. We persevere because God preserves us from full and final falling away from him.

What about those who "fall away" by apostasy? They were never saved to begin with. Had they been true Christians, they would have persevered and been preserved (1 John 2:19). The fifth point of Calvinism
teaches both the preservation and perseverance of the saints by the sovereign grace and power of God. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Reformed Theology

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]

 

Salvation is either of God or of man. It is either by grace or by works. If by grace it must be all of grace and if by works it must be all of works for the bible says that you cannot mix works and grace. Romans 11:6.

So, if you are trying to add works, even the work of not walking away from Christ, you have nullified grace and it is no more! My advice is accept the grace of God and that alone without mental reservation for eternal salvation.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tuor:
Chris,

"What about those who "fall away" by apostasy? They were never saved to begin with. Had they been true Christians, they would have persevered and been preserved (1 John 2:19). The fifth point of Calvinism
teaches both the preservation and perseverance of the saints by the sovereign grace and power of God."

I agree, yet how are we to know that we will not fall away? If we do, then we are not of the elect. If we don't, then we are. Until the race is over, how do you know?

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Tuor ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One area where Baptists have erred greatly is in the high priority they place upon assurance. Now don't get me wrong. I believe in the blessed assurance of the Holy Spirit toward the believer; but that is just the point. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to assure the believer of their salvation . Too many times evangelists want a decision for Christ made and then immediate assurance is granted. This is often portrayed in tracts which say "Congratulations! If you have faithfully said this prayer, you are now a Christian." This is not how one is assured. In fact, according to Jesus' parables of the seed on fallen ground, assurance cannot be acquired until one's faith is tested.

2 Peter 1:10 says "Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble". Each of us should live to make our election sure. Of course that does not mean to struggle everyday with "Am I elect, or not? Am I saved or not?" If you have repented of sin, turned to Christ as Lord and your only hope, and do not live as you once did, you can be assured of your salvation.

Nevertheless, I'd rather have a church filled with regenerate members unsure of their own salvation, than a church filled with assured pagans.

 

This is an area that has always troubled me. I think the use of the phrase, "Once saved, always saved", may be a little bit simplistic to describe this doctrine. It has always been confusing to me.

I gather than many Baptists separate themselves from the Calvinistic teaching of "irresistable grace" on this issue by saying that Calvinism focuses on grace being irresistable to the elect, which means that salvation can't be resisted, and Baptists focus on irresistable grace after salvation, meaning that it can't be lost.

One of my college professors resolved this for me by giving me a list of scripture references which very clearly seemed to teach that you cannot lose your salvation. Resolved, that is, until I read a book by an author who took the other view. I was a little relieved to discover that this is an ongoing controversy, Arminianism versus Calvinism, that has been going on since the reformation, from which I had been shielded in a church that just held one view. However, I am still bothered by two questions:

1. If you can lose your salvation, then isn't your motivation to serve God tainted by a fear of getting left out of heaven because you might do something (or not do something) which would leave you out?

2. If you can't lose your salvation, then isn't your desire to serve God tainted by the belief that backsliding (for lack of a better term), and selfish use of time and resources really have no effect on your ultimate spiritual destiny? Doesn't that subtract from both the quality and quantity of your committment to service?

And an additional mix into the questions has come from an agnostic co-worker in the past couple of years who points to this very argument as evidence that the Bible is hopelessly unclear in its teaching, and that this (and many other) divisions in Christianity is proof that it is just another man made religion and we can't hope to know who God is, if there is one. Of course I don't believe that at all, but it puts me in a difficult position because I don't really know how to address this issue.

Thanks for all you have posted here, and I look forward to seeing what else comes up here.