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Prayer for Salvation

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by PackerBacker, Dec 3, 2001.

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  1. PackerBacker

    PackerBacker New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Wells:


    But clearly, a "confessional prayer" to God is a requirement of salvation.    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hold on John. I'm not hung up on "confession." You are the one who made the quote above. It is "confessional prayer" as "a requirement to salvation" that I guess you could say I'm hung up on.

    I am sorry you read into my comments wrong and felt I accused you of leading people in prayers. That was not what I meant. Let me say it differently. Is there any where in the NT of people being instructed or encouraged to say "confessional prayers" (private or public) as a requirement of salvation?
     
    #21 PackerBacker, Dec 3, 2001
  2. PackerBacker

    PackerBacker New Member

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    Just read your last post after I replied. I think we may have both had a misunderstanding of each others position. I wanted to get this off quick so there is not a fire fight between us if not needed.

    Maybe your definition of "confessional prayer" might help to clear things up.

    [ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: PackerBacker ]
     
    #22 PackerBacker, Dec 3, 2001
  3. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    While it is OT, it has timeless, covenantless implications:

    2 Chronicles 7:14 (ESV)
    if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn (repent) from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

    Peace brother!
    ;)

    [ December 03, 2001: Message edited by: John Wells ]
     
    #23 John Wells, Dec 3, 2001
  4. PackerBacker

    PackerBacker New Member

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    John,

    I gotta go get ready for tonight, but I'll hop back on this thred tomorrow. Just a question to check and see if our roads are about to cross.

    After what I told you about the belivers I'm dealing with, who have openly spoken and shown their faith in what Christ did for them,(assuming their faith is correctly placed in the finished work of Christ alone) are they saved, even without a type of sinners prayer that "some people" (not saying you) do?

    See ya tomorrow [​IMG]
     
    #24 PackerBacker, Dec 3, 2001
  5. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Yes! Plus you mentioned they show regeneration signs; a big big indication that their salvation is genuine!

    God bless!
     
    #25 John Wells, Dec 3, 2001
  6. paul hadik

    paul hadik New Member

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    Don't forget my favorite! Cornelius and family are just sitting there while Peter is working on point 3 of his alliterative outline when they are filled with the Spirit.
    No hand raising, no walking down the aisle, no prompting their neighbor during "just one more verse" of Have thine own Way Lord.
    They just believed what they heard.

    paul
     
    #26 paul hadik, Dec 4, 2001
  7. PackerBacker

    PackerBacker New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paul hadik:
    Don't forget my favorite! Cornelius and family are just sitting there while Peter is working on point 3 of his alliterative outline when they are filled with the Spirit.
    No hand raising, no walking down the aisle, no prompting their neighbor during "just one more verse" of Have thine own Way Lord.
    They just believed what they heard.

    paul    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    One of many good examples Paul. Sad to say I was led to belive in the past that I "let the fish get away" if I did not "close the net" with them saying a "sinners prayer." Yep, funny how Peter was not even done preaching when Cornelius recieved the Spirit of God.

    Why is the practice of leading people or having them pray a prayer for salvation become such a part of what some people call the "plan of salvation." This question is open for anyone.
     
    #27 PackerBacker, Dec 4, 2001
  8. superdave

    superdave New Member

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    The seventh Pillar of the Baptist PB

    "We have always done it that way"

    ;)
     
    #28 superdave, Dec 5, 2001
  9. paul hadik

    paul hadik New Member

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    Superdave:

    surely you are not suggesting that Baptists have over the years amassed certain traditions which have become developed doctrine? This would equate us with *gasp* the you-know-who's!!
    In punishment I require you to read the entire collection of Chick salvation Tracts (that you may become perfect in doctrine) and sign your name at the bottom of one thus saving you from purgatory and assuring you eternal life!
     
    #29 paul hadik, Dec 5, 2001
  10. Psalm145 3

    Psalm145 3 New Member

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    A "sinner's prayer" apart from faith and repentance is worthless. We all know that. But we need to be encouraging people to pray. When a person prays to God with the whole heart and really means buisness, God will show them their lost condition. A sinner needs to see that he is truly lost without Christ, that he cannot save himself, that his heart is darker than he ever imagined it could be. No person can convince a sinner how wicked he really is apart from the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit awakens a seeking sinner, he sees there is no hope for him apart from Christ and is driven to the only Saviour.

    There are many false converts because of over anxious "soul-winners" getting them to pray a prayer to be saved before that person really knows he is as lost as lost can be.

    Encourage people to pray in private, seeking God with the whole heart.

    Jeremiah 29:12,13 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
     
    #30 Psalm145 3, Dec 5, 2001
  11. Pioneer

    Pioneer Guest

    This thread has brought out an important contradiction between the belief of a Calvinist and his practice.

    Chris Temple stated - "The only requirements of God's salvation are God's elect confessing him as Lord and Savior and believing upon him."

    Dr. Bob Griffin stated - "And always remember to put together ALL the NT teaching on salvation - it is NOT just "believing", but an equally-demanding requirement is "repentance"."

    Both of these men are staunch Calvinists.

    Calvinism states that God saves a person then he repents and believes.

    Now we have repentance and faith being put forth as requirements for salvation (which would make them before salvation).

    Both men contradicting their own belief system.
     
    #31 Pioneer, Dec 6, 2001
  12. Pioneer

    Pioneer Guest

    By the way, I am only making an observation. If either of these two men mentioned feel that I am "misrepresenting" them by what I said, I would love to hear their explainations for this seeming contradiction between their beliefs and their practice.
     
    #32 Pioneer, Dec 6, 2001
  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Pioneer - We need to carefully understand the terms. We believe that salvation is 100% of the grace of God. NOTHING about it is tainted with the "works" of man.

    Man cannot will it, desire it, seek it, call, receive, accept, or even believe UNLESS God does something first . . .

    "Regeneration" (a seldom used word) is the work of the HS on the unsaved, GIVING him the saving faith and saving repentance needed to "call on the Lord", etc.

    And that is what God does. HE saves sinners by regenerating them and giving them faith and repentance.

    Hope that clarifies how calvinists and the Bible agree, instead of placing some emphasis on "works of man" which, of course, will come AFTER regeneration.
     
    #33 Dr. Bob, Dec 6, 2001
  14. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    Ditto Dr. Bob. No contradiction.

    **Chris Temple stated - "The only requirements of God's salvation are God's elect confessing him as Lord and Savior and believing upon him."

    The confession of Christ as Lord and Savior and belief in him is proof of one's election, for only the elect can do these things through the Holy Spirit.

    Ephes. 2:8-10 (ESV)
    For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

    And I don't want to start another Calvinism/Armianism thread :rolleyes: But if we're to talk contradictions between belief and practice, we must start with the non-Calvinist and ask him why in the world he ever prays. For if God is unable or unwilling to change and direct the thoughts, minds and actions of men and nations, why ever bother to pray?

    [ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]
     
    #34 Chris Temple, Dec 6, 2001
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