CAN A CHRISTIAN BE POSSESSED/DEMONIZED?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark Twain:
I am sure you are right. What happened to me was that one night I went to a movie about demon possession and the very next month, I fell and broke my arm. What greater proof could anyone want about the evil effects of things having to do with the occult. In order to protect myself, I now wear a magnetic bracelet that wards off evil spirits. It must work, because nothing bad has happened to me since I got it. Only paid $399 for it, too. But I can't tell whether the bracelet is protecting me or whether it is my daily bible reading. What do you think, Robert?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a joke, right?

 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;This is a joke, right? &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Why do you think I am joking? Don't you believe in demons?

 

Sure I do. But I don't believe they can be warded off with magnets. The Scriptures attest to the fact that there is no carnal (physical) weapon to use against demons.

(And no, David's playing the harp doesn't apply. God condescended to the weakness of his children while under the Schoolmaster.)

 

O.K., Aaron, you say there are no physical weapons that can be used against demons. Suppose you had a demon, what would you do? I heard on the news last night that the Catholic church in Chicago has someone designated to cast out demons. Do you think that person can do it? I also heard part of a news item that the Pope in Rome was going to have something to say on this issue, but I don't know the details.

By the way, the metal bracelet seems to work, so how can you be sure that it does not? The problem has gone away. Dr. Griffin, have you had any experience on this subject? Do they teach you how to cast out demons in seminary? When a demon gets hold of you, there is no doubt what it is. You feel it! It was a very strange experience.

[ February 16, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Twain ]

 

Can you find a New Testament example of an exorcism in which something other than a command was used to make the demon depart?

I've read the Book from cover to cover and I ain't seen nuthin' 'bout magnets!

 

I think there is something to the idea that if you believe strongly enough that something will work, it will tend to work. Back years ago, the blacks in the south used to attach small lumps of cotton to their screen doors, to keep away the bad spirits. They swore it works. Sometimes folk wisdom like that should not be disregarded. Many claim that magnets have some unusual powers that are not yet understood by science. Some people use them to help with arthritis. Others use magnets for other things. If we accept the Bible's teachings that demons exist, then I see no reason why the demons could not have characteristics that were not fully explained by the bible.

 

You should start posting in the Music Forum. The CCM-ers continually make the argument that because it is not specifically forbidden then it is okay.

Start a thread titled something like "The Power of God Through Magnets".

[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: Aaron ]

 

Aaron, what about witches, do you believe they exist? I think they are mentioned in the bible a time or two. If they do exist, now, what should be done about them?

 

Mark you are a mocker, giving arguement that leads to strife and confusion.
I have been in situations, counseling those who claim to hear voices in their heads and leading them to do things that are "in the name of god" yet show themselves to be utterly bankrupt of any true biblical morals. How would you lead them? How would you deliver them? When truly faced with demonic influence and possession, and the person "truly" wants to be delivered, how would you minister to them?

A true Christian would see the trap of death the person is in and offer them the message of salvation.

When I counseled this person who heard voices, I confronted him with the gospel and challenged him to listen to only the Savior's voice and forsake his evil ways. Although he did not return, I believe that the Holy Spirit is the true convicter of the heart and deliverer from demonic bondage.

 

Uh, doesn't anyone else see the sarcasm in Mark Twain's posts? Doubt he's for real, and RobertG once again falls for everything.

 

Jesus mentions what role the devil has. It isn't in the life of the believer.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Luke 8:12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here, the devil keeps people from believing, therefore keeping them from being saved.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>John 8:42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He who belongs to God hears what he says, if you don't hear then you didn't belong to God. You belong to the devil. You can't belong to both, that is never an option. I believe Kathy already quoted where you can't serve both God and Mammon. You can only serve one God.

The devil will still try to stop you from doing your work, to distract you so that you won't make a difference from Christ, but that is different from possesion.

We are told to put on the full armor of God, not to keep us from being "possessed by the devil" but:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ephesians 6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do we keep the devil from scheming against us? Do we "rebuke him in the name of Jesus?"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>James 4:7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, we simply resist him. We submit to God and resist the devil and he will flee from us. We don't need to "rebuke", or "cast him out", for he isn't in the believer. We resist his schemes by submitting and following God.

Jesus didn't just "beat" the devil, he destroyed him and his power over those who trust in God.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hebrews 2:14Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil-- 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

~Lorelei

 

Well, here is where the problem is, I think. demons and witches are just on the edge of respectability in the church. They are mentioned in the bible, so most don't really want to argue against them, but down deep, it seems that most don't really believe they exist. Am I right or wrong in thinking this?
I have my own opinion of course and that is that demons are witches are very real.

 

Amen, Lorelei!

But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil. Proverbs 1:33

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

 

RobertG. I do not accept Kurt Koch as a leading authority on anything! Robert, as a Baptist, I accept Only the Word of God as my final authority for my faith and practice.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
Dear fellow believers:

Here is Kurt Koch's (an authority in demonic possession) account of how a CHRISTIAN got invaded by a demon through SLAYING BY THE SPIRIT. Please pay attention to the conversation between Koch and the demon.
The link: http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/slain.htm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read the link. It doesn't ring true, even though Dr. Koch was an acknowledged authority on demonic influences and the occult. The conversation runs MUCH too smoothly and there are moments that seem to be anti-biblical. Can Satan call a demon from the pit? Not if, as the Bible says, they are BOUND there -- which seems to be what the demons who were sent by Christ into the herd of pigs (at their request) were afraid of.

Romans 8:9 says clearly that all who belong to Christ have the Spirit of God living in them. In His last discourse to His disciples in John 14:20, Christ Himself says, "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."

Christ will not share His abode with Satan or a demon. This is not even in question.

When a Christian takes his or her eyes off of Christ, he or she can be frightened by demons saying "boo!" or whatever, but our lives are hid with Christ in God and that's that as far as actually having any possibility of being demon POSSESSED is concerned!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
1a. Did God not share His Old Testament temple with demon worshippers, idols, filthy images of beasts (occultic), and demons in Ezekiel chapter 8. God occupied the Holy of Holies; the rest, the outer and the inner courts. Even though there are three sections, THEY ARE PART OF ONE TEMPLE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I might ask someone more educated on the prophetical books to comment on this one. The way I read it, you must first realize there is a difference between the physical temple of God and the covenant he had with the Jews. If you notice it ends with God saying "Therefore I will deal with them in anger; I will not look on them with pity or spare them. Although they shout in my ears, I will not listen to them." Those who allowed his temple to be defiled weren't "saved" anyway, nor was God allowing them access to such salvation. He would show them no pity. We as God's children are filled with the Spirit and that "seals" our salvation until the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14 & Ephesians 4:30)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
1b. If the Old Testament temple, because of the sins of Israel, was defiled, could not our New Testament temple, because of ours sins, be defiled too?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, because Jesus died to cover our sins. And Jesus is the chief cornerstone of our temple

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
2. Did not Satan use Peter as his mouthpiece in Matthew 16:23? This is one classic case of demonization that baptists ignore--Peter's mind and mouth being controlled by Satan himself! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We don't ignore it, we just realize that Peter was NOT filled with the Spirit as we are today. Jesus told him that the Spirit could not be sent until later. Once the Spirit filled Peter in Acts chapter 2, you then see Peter healing people who were tormented by demons. He never had that problem himself again, praise the Lord!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ROBERTGUWAPO:
3. Is not the Holy Spirit within us exposed to the same kind of evil when we fornicate, have anonymous sex, view pornography? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may be evil, but is our sin. You give Satan too much power. Satan doesn't need to indwell us to make us do these things. Just because we sin, that does not make us demon possessed.

~Lorelei

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: Lorelei ]