Can Christians be 'Homosexual'

Saying that there aren't any Biblical references to the immorality of homosexuality is like throwing away what you don't like from God's Word. You can't pick and choose what to believe. You either believe the Bible or you don't. If you don't you have no business being a Christian in the first place (why base your life on something you can't believe?), although I know many people who attempt to do so.

It is possible scientifically that someone may have leanings towards being more feminine or masculine, but this does not in any form say that God created people to be gay. It's a personal struggle to fight such things, and this may be your own personal demon, but that may lead you to greater successes for the Lord through the fight against temptation.

All too often we accuse gays as not even being Christians, which isn't fair. They "get picked on" because it's easy to. A sin is a sin, and even though we may continue to live a sin after salvation we are still saved, once and forever. Whether we are a good Christian or not (the sown seeds falling to different spots), is another question.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> A sin is a sin, and even though we may continue to live a sin after salvation we are still saved, once and forever. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

The Holy Spirit inspired these words.
A person who continues in open unrepentant sin (habitual, constant sinning) has never been saved.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning...

Unrepentant homosexuals have been given up to their sinful lifestyle. God gave them over to a reprobate mind.

Homosexuals can be saved, just like any other sinner, but repentance is absolutely necessary!

Many Gospel presentations these days lack the requirement of repentance from sin. This is a big reason we have so many false professors of faith, so many tares among the wheat, so many "homosexual Christians"

If they don't repent, they will someday hear these chilling, terrifying words of condemnation, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

 

I do not want to be misunderstood. Yes, I agreed with MAC ... on the post that was just shut down. I agreed that homosexuality is a sin. I do not believe a practicing homosexual will be admitted into the kingdom of God. Homosexuality is an abomination according to scripture and that is good enough for me! I wonder though ... when these posts are made if we shouldn't witness to the poster instead of blowing him/her out of the water? Joy, I agree with you. I am not debating the issue of the morality of homosexuals .... they need to confess and come clean through Christ ... but is it not our job as Chrisitans to witness to everyone .. regardless of the sin? Regardless of our personal thoughts about the sin? Just thinking out loud.........

 

Rev. Joshua ... I disagree. Practicing homosexuals cannot be christians. God has said it ... I didn't. His word is very clear on the subject. How can we accept the Bible and discount the parts we do not want to recognize ... we cannot. How do you interpet the verses listed above by the BB members to read anything but what we are saying?

[ October 05, 2001: Message edited by: For His Name ]

 

Why is it we'd have such an easier time believing that a rapist or a murderer sitting in prison was saved when he committed his crime, but a homosexual with a willing partner couldn't have possibly been saved when he sinned?
Gina

 

I guess i'll chime in my 2 cents:

Homosexuality is a sin. There is no watering that down.

Homosexuals can be saved. Are you saved? Do you still sin even after you are saved? Was that a yes i heard?

Homosexuals may have not been taught there lifestyle was wrong, they may be new Christians, maybe they are just being stubborn towards God in this area of their life and won't give in. Does this make them unsaved...nope. Unless if you are prepared to say that anyone who harbors a sin in their heart is unsaved.

Until Next Post, Adam

 

Flyfree ... I was waiting for you to "chime in" .... wanted to see your post.

 

Gina,

I think you missed the point. A practicing rapist or murderer, unrepentant is just as condemned as a practicing homosexual. Likewise, a repentant person of those three offenses can find forgiveness at the cross.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Reklaw:
Saying that there aren't any Biblical references to the immorality of homosexuality is like throwing away what you don't like from God's Word. You can't pick and choose what to believe. You either believe the Bible or you don't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Congratulations, Reklaw. You correctly and succinctly identified Liberal Theology.

 

first of all, a sexual orientation IS a lifestyle! One lives a life the way one is oriented.

In Genesis 8:21, God says clearly that the heart of man (people) always tends toward evil from childhood. Now we know that not everyone tends toward every kind of evil, but that is not the point. The point is that man's original heart does not want God (except some version filtered through what they are willing to accept, as though they were the judge and not He), and that people need a change of heart.

That is what being born again is all about. The old heart -- the old nature -- is killed on the cross. See Romans 6. A NEW nature -- a NEW heart -- is given. This heart tends toward God. This heart desires to please Him as part of its very nature.

Thus, the homosexual who finally turns to the Lord will find himself or herself disgusted by that very sin by which he or she has been identified. The desire will be, instead, to please the Lord, and homosexuality will be dropped like the rotten, stinking thing it actually is.

Are we all sinners? Of course! Does that give us an excuse to sin? Never! Sin is rebellion against God, and there is never an excuse for that in an adult especially.

Should the church minister to homosexuals? Sure, the same way it ministers to the rest of the pagan world, with physical help where needed and the Gospel -- the true Gospel about death to sin and alive in Christ.

Why are some people homosexual? Each of us is born with certain talents, like music, or art, as well as certain weaknesses, like a nasty temper, or a tendency to lie. We encourage and train the former and train our children away from the latter.

Even if a tendency towards homosexuality is born in, and this is very much in dispute, but even if it is, Romans 1 makes it very clear that only those who are in rebellion against God will be given over to it. The concept of 'given over' might be used to say "See? I was born this way...", but, again, we were all born with hearts tending toward evil, but that is what Christ came to cure.

I never see people identifying themselves by their weakness/sin except in the case of homosexuality. I don't hear about liars 'coming out of the closet,' or about those with tempers simply saying, "I was born this way. Live with it." But homosexuals identify themselves by their sin! Their very chosen identity proclaims them in rebellion against God.

Consider what sex is for. Physically, homosexuality is barren. That's just the physical side.

But consider something else. Remember how Jesus used everyday things to help explain spiritual truths? Remember how the Ark is considered a 'type of Christ' -- get in or get dead? Remember how many, if not all, events and things in the Old Testament, as real as they were in world history, are also symbols of spiritual truths, many of which Christ Himself referred to?

It occurred to me many years ago, "OK, then what about sex? Is it a picture of something, too? Something more important, actually, than procreation or closeness between husband and wife?"

Think about what happens when a person submits to Christ. We are called His Bride. We submit to Him, He enters us, and a new life is begun. What happens between a husband and wife? She submits to him, he enters her, and conception results. A new life.

No wonder Satan and our own evil tendencies would desire to pervert this picture! Look what it is spiritually representing! There is no other picture given by God to man which carries the same impact in meaning. This is precisely why idolatry and adultery are so frequently interchanged in the Old Testament in the speaches of the prophets. Israel's turning away from the Lord is consistently pictured as adultery.

Homosexuality destroys the picture God has given us, as well as the purpose for sex physically and emotionally in a marriage. It has devastating consequences on the lives of those involved, taking them further and further away from God Himself. They wander further and further into a world of accepted delusion and preference for a lie.

And, finally, homosexuality is a 'double' sin. All sexual sins are, for it (sexual sin) is the one sin which the Bible defines as not being just against God, but against one's own body.

NO one, but NNE, who is born again in Christ wants to continue in sin, no matter what the sin is. And the entire goal of the Holy Spirit indwelling that person is to conform them, bit by bit, to the image of Christ (Romans 8:28-30) and He won't quit until He's done (Phil 1:6). Homosexuality will not be present in the life of a born again Christian as a 'sexual orientation.' That is NOT in the image of Christ.

 

A big Amen to that Helen! Thank you for that post, and God bless!

 

Helen:

Your post gets my vote for best of the MONTH.

 

Very true Mr. Wells.
Great post on the first page, btw.
For all, verse nine of I Cor 6, the word effeminate, I've always used with people who think they're born that way. That yes, you can be born with that tendency, it's still wrong. I can be born with a weakness towards ANYTHING, right?
Anyhow, that's how I've been using that word in that verse with others. Have I been wrong?
And PLEASE people, yes, there ARE degrees of sin, but you don't know what you could be doing tomorrow. You don't know the inner struggles of others, yet so many seem willing to go straight for the throat on this issue.
Without going into too much detail, here's the struggle of a someone I did a little work with a while ago.
22 year old male, waiter in a restaurant.
Ready to &gt;gasp&lt; ? Baptist! He was raised by Baptist parents his whole life, decent life, average kid, knew they loved him, blah blah blah, no abuse. Good student. Two sisters, one brother. Only thing was, he never told them he thought he was gay, but he felt that way. Never thought too much of girls, but tried the whole scene just to see and try to be normal. Noop. Sisters got married, brother got married, he decided it was time to talk to mom and dad, because now he's an adult in serious trouble and doesn't know what to do, because this is going against everything he believes.
What's he get? The ignorant, biased, holier than thou "you're an abomination get out of our sight you evil doer treatment".
What does the world get? Another suicidal disillusioned Christian...YES....CHRISTIAN...and BAPTIST at that! And GAY!
Yes, I'm going off here.....The sin IS an abomination, YES we should fight against it! No, we shouldn't allow it to be flaunted and NO we shouldn't let them parade it down the streets! But there are people who REALLY aren't doing this just for kicks and giggles and may just need a bit more of a loving Christian attitude because we're killing each other here! No, we don't have to be peaches and cream when it comes to sin, but we don't have to take a machete and print a verse on it and hack 'em to death either. There ARE other methods.
Gina

 

Gina,

I have been a deaf interpreter -- not now because of arthritis in my thumbs. Nevertheless, one of the most skilled and incredibly talented deaf interpreters it was ever my pleasure to meet and watch (I daren't say 'work with'!) was a gay man. And he was miserable.

Today he is out of that lifestyle and just got married to a woman he loves very much. It is the Lord who sets these people free, but there are some very good Christian organizations and groups for those seeking to leave the gay lifestyle. I honestly don't know the names of them, but some here might. One of them was of inestimable help to my friend, and I know many others have been helped.

Some sins do become lifestyles, and that is very, very hard to break. When I was growing up, I became very proficient at lying. By the time I was in my teens, I think the word 'pathological liar' might have been appropriate. When I was 18 and in college, a boyfriend who cared enough took the time to track every lie of mine that he could suspect down to find out the truth. He called my folks, other friends, old boyfriends, the works. Thus armed, he confronted me. For 48 hours. Until I finally admitted to every one of those lies. I screamed. I threw things at him. My language was foul. I hated him entirely.

And I have not had a problem with lying since.

If a person really wants to change (and inside, I did. I remember praying for help), God will provide what is needed, either as a direct miracle or through the ministrations of others.

Perhaps -- and this is just a thought -- some of those who feel they must have been 'born gay' might actually be those whom God has called to live a celibate life for His own reasons. Our society is so steeped in sex of all sorts that to say one does not want it is considered some kind of social abomination! So, not being attracted to girls, they get trapped with guys. Maybe we should remember and remind that God has truly made people differently for His glory. Maybe some of these people trapped in that lifestyle are actually men and women the Lord has had other plans for, and they did not know what to do with 'feeling different.'

As I said, just a thought. Certainly not a doctrine or something I have thought about long enough to feel confident of calling it anything other than 'just a thought.'

 

And it's a very good thought. I'm sure it does account for a percentage. Thanks for your input, you have good insight.
Gina

 

Gina,

Thanks for your kind words on my 1st page post. I agree with your last post and think it agrees with my page 1er.

The message to homosexuals seeking release from their bondage of sin should be very positive. The message to homosexuals in denial of their sin and content with staying in their sinful practice should be a strong (tough love) warning.

In a former ministry I was involved in, I heard personal testimonies of numerous ex-homosexuals. They all spoke of their frustration (such as your aquaintance Gina), low self-esteem, and hopelessness. Everyone of them indicated that when they sought God with all their heart to change them, HE DID! One was a famous Christian musician (whom I'll honor confidentiality) who has been happily married for ten years with four beautiful kids - all on the other side of the cross and homosexuality!

The key is a gay person must truly want to be delivered/changed. They must seek God with all their heart. They must "sell out" to Jesus. Many Christians NEVER DO THAT. I was a Christian for years before I "laid it all" at the foot of the cross. Jesus said, "I have come to set the captives free." If experiencing Jesus had the power to change a murderer named Saul into the super-Apostle Paul, I have no doubt that a homosexual who "experiences Jesus" will be made a new creature as well!

 

"NO one, but NNE, who is born again in Christ wants to continue in sin, no matter what the sin is."

On a certian plane I have to disagree with that.

For instance. I am a Christian, but while I was watching the attacks on our country I very badly wanted to personally go after vengance against Osamo and the Taliban. Vengance of course belongs to the Lord not me. But I WANTED to sin. I WANTED to commit murder. I WANTED him and his kind DEAD.

So as a Christian I wanted to sin. Granted I'm sorry I did, and I have repented for that, but that does not mean as Christians we will never feel a want to sin. On a intellectual level we can all say we never "want to" sin, but we all have our moments, days, maybe even weeks, who knows how long. And of course that want in itself is sin.

Until Next Post, Adam

[ October 05, 2001: Message edited by: flyfree432 ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
Why is it we'd have such an easier time believing that a rapist or a murderer sitting in prison was saved when he committed his crime, but a homosexual with a willing partner couldn't have possibly been saved when he sinned?
Gina<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gina, I understand what you are saying. I think that they are speaking of someone who "continues" to lead a life of immorality and "for instance" lives with a partner of the same sex while being active in that manner. If the murderer or rapist were still out murdering and raping then the very same thing would apply. I don't think anybody is saying that God will not forgive and wash the sins of a homosexual any differently than he would a murderer; but there will be a change in that persons lifestyle.

Another comment about yearnings was made in another post. If they still want a person of the same sex they must control the urge exactly the same way a non-gay man may look at a woman with lust. (I agree with the post, just clarifying some.) I heard one pastor put it this way. If I see a woman walking down the street I may look and there is a thought that runs through the mind that she is pretty (after all God made women the most beautiful thing in the world to a man); however, if I drive around the block for another look, then it becomes sin. I must immediately block the urge to prevent the temptation from becoming sin--the same thing applies to homosexual urges that may continue. (I can't stop a bird from landing on my head, but I can sure keep him from building a next there.)
In Christ's Love
Phillip

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:
"NO one, but NNE, who is born again in Christ wants to continue in sin, no matter what the sin is."

On a certian plane I have to disagree with that.

For instance. I am a Christian, but while I was watching the attacks on our country I very badly wanted to personally go after vengance against Osamo and the Taliban. Vengance of course belongs to the Lord not me. But I WANTED to sin. I WANTED to commit murder. I WANTED him and his kind DEAD.

So as a Christian I wanted to sin. Granted I'm sorry I did, and I have repented for that, but that does not mean as Christians we will never feel a want to sin. On a intellectual level we can all say we never "want to" sin, but we all have our moments, days, maybe even weeks, who knows how long. And of course that want in itself is sin.

Until Next Post, Adam

[ October 05, 2001: Message edited by: flyfree432 ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Adam,

Are you sure that was a sin? Read Psalms, and the horrid things David asks God to do to his enemies! And it seems, when one considers the number of wars David was involved in, that he was more than happy to take care of matters himself on occasion!

The desire for justice is not wrong. The desire to be part of the establishment of that justice is not wrong, either. What would have been wrong would have been if you had acted on that, which would have been outside the laws of this country, which we are told to respect.

The people's hearts cry for justice. Yours was no exception.

Now, if you had dwelled on exactly how you would like to deal with the situation on a personal basis, that might have easily involved sin. But to desire justice, which is really all that was, and to be willing to be part of it, these thoughts are not sinful. We are supposed to desire justice, and we are supposed to be willing to follow God's lead. It seems to me that you have been correct on both accounts, then. You not only had an immediate desire for justice, you followed God's lead by not venturing forth on your own!

 

Helen,

You and I may disagree on the age of the earth, but your posts here are a shining example of true Christianity!

May God bless you!