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If you were to die tonight...

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 30, 2001.

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  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Where would you go? That is the question that many Baptists ask when witnessing to the lost. The common answer is usually "I don't know for sure" or "I hope I will go to heaven" or even "I know that because I have accepted Jesus as my savior I will go to heaven".

    But, my question is a little different. When we ask that question, do we mean that when we die, we will immediately go to heaven, or do they go to sheol to await Jesus' return, ressurection of the church, and judgment? Or do we beleive that those who have died in the Lord are already in heaven worshipping the Lord?

    If the former is true, then are Baptist preachers being dishonest when comforting a family at a funeral by saying that their loved ones are in heaven now and that we should take comfort in that?

    Joseph
     
    #1 Joseph_Botwinick, Jun 30, 2001
  2. Psalm145 3

    Psalm145 3 New Member

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    Christians who die go right away to be with the Lord Jesus,(2 Corinthians 5:8). Their bodies go in the grave and their spirit goes to be with the Lord. They will get new bodies at the time of the rapture(1 Corinthians 15:52).
     
    #2 Psalm145 3, Jun 30, 2001
  3. Danny

    Danny New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Psalm145 3:
    Christians who die go right away to be with the Lord Jesus,(2 Corinthians 5:8). Their bodies go in the grave and their spirit goes to be with the Lord. They will get new bodies at the time of the rapture(1 Corinthians 15:52).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Here's a question: When we die and go into the presence of the Lord, are we invisible spirits with no body until the ressurection? If we have a temporary body, what happens to it when we get our resurrected body? :confused:
     
    #3 Danny, Jul 2, 2001
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:3, "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man."

    If this is true, then there is no way that those who have ever died before us could have scripturally gone to heaven...if this is still in effect and hasn't changed. What does the Bible say would happen to cause a change that would allow others in to heaven after the ressurection?

    John 13:33-14:3 tells us that he must return.

    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 tells us that the dead had to be raised.

    John Noe writes:

    "Traditionalists believe that neither of these two prerequisite events has taken place. If they are correct, then John 3:13 is still in effect, and at death a Christian still goes somewhere else and awaits Jesus' return, ressurection and the judgment...popular theology has neglected these teachings in order to comfort the family and mourners at a Christian funeral. They are told that the dearly departed is now in heaven with Jesus. However, only the preterist position (all promised, end-time events and the complete establishment of all 'age to come' kingdom realities were fulfilled within the 1st century time parameters demanded by scripture) makes this consummation reality possible by presenting demanding evidence that both of these mandatory eschatological events hae occured."

    (Shattering the Left Behind Delusion, pp. 34-35)

    Joseph
     
    #4 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 23, 2001
  5. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    See my post under: "General Discussion" - "Hell" posted July 23, 2001 05:29 PM
     
    #5 John Wells, Jul 23, 2001
  6. Ars

    Ars New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JBotwinick:
    Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:3, "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man."

    If this is true, then there is no way that those who have ever died before us could have scripturally gone to heaven...if this is still in effect and hasn't changed. What does the Bible say would happen to cause a change that would allow others in to heaven after the ressurection?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I think you misinterpret the verse, Which by the way is John 3: 13. Though I'm sure it was a simple type-o on your part. At this point, Jesus is still explaining things to Nicodemus. The previous verse states :If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things? (KJV)

    Jesus is not referring to what happens when one dies, but rather he alone, was fit to reveal to us doctrine. None but Christ was able to reveal to us the will of God for our salvation. Nicodemus addressed Christ as a prophet; but he must know that he is greater than all the Old-Testament prophets, for none of them had ascended into heaven. They wrote by divine inspiration, and not of their own knowledge. Moses ascended into the mount, but not into heaven. No man has attained to the certain knowledge of God and heavenly things as Christ has. He gives them a proof of his ability to speak to them of heavenly things, and to lead them into the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, by telling them, that he came down from heaven.

    Also, Jesus spoke to the thief beside him on the cross.
    And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.Luke 23:43  

    Seems pretty obvious to me that the thief was going to Heaven when he died.

    Dave
     
    #6 Ars, Jul 23, 2001
  7. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Joseph,
    The problem is with your exegesis of, and I think you meant, John 3:13

    No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. (John 3:13 NIV)

    "And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man. (John 3:13 NASB)

    And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13 KJV)

    Jesus says this before He "ascended up to heaven." What this says is that even the Son of man has not ascended to heaven, yet He has been there (a cloaked claim to diety so that the Jews would not stone Him to death).

    When believers die, they do not "ascend" into heaven either. I have been bedside by a few and I did not see them ascend into heaven. Paul says that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." It's better than "ascending." It's instantaneous, substantiating the "Left Behind" illustration! :D

    [ July 23, 2001: Message edited by: wellsjs ]
     
    #7 John Wells, Jul 23, 2001
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