Why stay Baptist?

kwob02 · Feb 13, 2002

I was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist church, rules against everything, no fun and services the same old thing every week with a preacher that never really preached the Bible, just harped and criticized everything and everyone. My Dad was very strict, no card playing, quiet-no noise on Sunday, couldn't be in many things at school because we had to be at church on Wednesday night and twice on Sunday, etc.

When I graduated from high school, I was told that my parents would pay for college if I went to a "good" Bible college, of their choosing. I didn't really want to, but I thought if they are paying for it, why not? So I started out at good old BJU. It was a horrible experience, more rules that you could dream up in half a lifetime, ridiculous stuff, and cruel punishments. They treated you like you were in kindergarten again. And there was no love in the Christ they preached. There was also a lot of corruption and sneaking around doing stuff among the students, too. After a year, I left and went to Tennessee Temple. Same thing. A gospel without love or grace, based on rules, rules rules. The preaching was this hard line, obey the rules or go to hell. It seemed that the more boring and long and pointless they could make the worship, the better they thought it was.

I left there after a year and decided to put myself through school. If it took four more years, I was going to do that rather than go back to a Bible college. Then I found out that TTU and BJU aren't accredited, and hardly any of their credits transferred. Thankfully, I found a college that understood the problem and that was willing to accept some of the credits.

AFter I left Temple, I quit going to church, and stayed out of church for the next ten years. I really was burned out and didn't want to have anything to do with the church. My wife comes from a family that didn't attend church except at Easter or Christmas, so we just didn't see the need to go at all.

In the past year, we met some people through a mission program who came to do some Bible clubs and such in the summer. They came to our house one afternoon and we had a great visit and the upshot of it is that we've started going to church. I guess I am still Baptist but one trip back to the Baptist church was enough to bring all the bad memories flowing back. I just don't think I can do that any more. There's one Baptist church that we visited that seemed pretty good but it is hard to trust.

We have found a very nice, small but very friendly Episcopal church near our house which we like very much. They are very committed to worship, have a good adult Bible group and the pastor is very sincere and devoted to the church. So I was wondering, since this is a Baptist board and I guess most of the posts are from Baptists, before I cross this line and join the Episcopal church, is there some reason I should stay Baptist?

rsr · Feb 13, 2002

There are plenty of Baptist churches that you could feel comfortable in. The bigger problem may be that your wife is not at all interested. This is a big problem, one that you should address together. Just running to another faith will not solve the problem.

nth78 · Feb 13, 2002

I say you should go to church where ever you feel comfortable. I am Baptist, but my fiance is Catholic. And judging by the way other Baptists on this board have reacted, I may considering joining a different church myself. It is my personal belief that the church you go to isn't important as long as you believe, but I'm sure you are going to get bombarded by some of the elitists here.

Good luck and do whatever you think is right.

kwob02 · Feb 13, 2002

Oh, I expect to be "bombarded by elitists" in a Baptist forum like this. I spent the first nineteen years of my life in a fundamentalist Baptist church and at two Bible colleges where the only way disagreement was handled was for the elite to try to punish it in some way, or beat it over the head with a black King James leather bound Bible. That's exactly why I find it hard to consider going back into that kind of environment.

We did visit one Baptist church that we found pretty comfortable. Ironically, it was one identified by the elite at BJU as a place to avoid with the same kind of distance you would give to a leprosarium. But it is still a "Baptist" church. Does that mean it might somewhere still have a tendency to the arrogance, legalism and brow-beating that I have experienced elsewhere?

Bro. Curtis · Feb 13, 2002

Why stay Baptist ? It's easy, so I can post on this here board!!!

Kathy · Feb 13, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by kwob02:
Oh, I expect to be "bombarded by elitists" in a Baptist forum like this. I spent the first nineteen years of my life in a fundamentalist Baptist church and at two Bible colleges where the only way disagreement was handled was for the elite to try to punish it in some way, or beat it over the head with a black King James leather bound Bible. That's exactly why I find it hard to consider going back into that kind of environment.

We did visit one Baptist church that we found pretty comfortable. Ironically, it was one identified by the elite at BJU as a place to avoid with the same kind of distance you would give to a leprosarium. But it is still a "Baptist" church. Does that mean it might somewhere still have a tendency to the arrogance, legalism and brow-beating that I have experienced elsewhere?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I hear what you are saying, you really aren't being very specific. What EXACTLY did you have a problem with at all of these Christian establishments?

Before you respond, please know that I am a Fundamental Baptist and there is no brow-beating, etc. going on in my church. We are a very fun loving congregation who truly loves the Lord Jesus Christ. It seems that the term "IFB" gets dragged thru the mud alot here on the BB and it is placed in an ugly box for all to throw stones at.

Anyway, I'm not venting on you, I was just stating a fact. I'm sorry that these things have happened to you in the past, but I would just say don't blame the Lord for mistakes of mere sinners. First and foremost what you should be looking for is a church that teaches SOUND DOCTRINE. Salvation based on faith in Jesus Christ ALONE and baptism in obedience (not to attain salvation).

I'm glad to hear you are interested in returning to church...fellowship with the brethren sounds like just what you need. Pray and seek God's direction for you life, He won't lead you astray.

Kathy
<><

Chris Temple · Feb 13, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by nth78:
[QB]I say you should go to church where ever you feel comfortable. I am Baptist, but my fiance is Catholic. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you reconcile that, biblically?

Lorelei · Feb 13, 2002

When I look for a church, I look for a Bible believing, Bible preaching church. But not just one that professes to believe and preaches it, but that lives it.

My only advice would be for you to seek out just exaclty what the Episcopalian church believes and weigh that to what you believe and weigh them both to what the Bible says. As Kathy said, it should have Sound Doctrine!

Lorelei · Feb 13, 2002

I didn't mean to click enter..anyway...

I notice you said you were "raised" Baptist. Did you ever become one yourself? Are you currently Baptist by birth or choice?

~Lorelei

nth78 · Feb 13, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:

How do you reconcile that, biblically?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do I reconcile what?

kwob02 · Feb 14, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
I didn't mean to click enter..anyway...

I notice you said you were "raised" Baptist. Did you ever become one yourself? Are you currently Baptist by birth or choice?

~Lorelei<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Raised Baptist" in that I attended a Baptist church virtually twice every Sunday and for three hours every Wednesday from birth to age 20. Or at least age 19. I "joined" just as most Baptist children do, by walking the aisle and "professing" my faith in Christ and then being baptized.

I believe in Jesus, not just that he existed, but that he was the Son of God who came to redeem us, and that this was God's plan. I believe that the Bible reveals God and his redemptive plan in Jesus. But the way most Baptists interpret and treat the Bible is something that I have a hard time with. There is little consistency, especially in the fundamentalist church where I grew up. They take the Bible and divide it up and base doctrines on single verses (which are artificial divisions) while ignoring the context of passages and the historical and cultural context in which the Bible was written. That's not "Bible believing" that's prooftexting, making the Bible say something that the original authors never intended to say. Yet that is at the core of the fundamentalist church "agenda", which is how I see it.

I heard my preacher talk about the love of Jesus but never saw it in the church. They hated everything and everybody. Sunday School teachers and the preacher all pointed out everyone else's faults. I remember my sister coming home crying from church on wednesday night because she wore a pair of khaki pants (it was about 15 degrees outside) and her Bible teacher sent her home and quoted some Bible verse about men's clothes (the pants were made for women) and told her she had sinned. Then my mother got on her for "sneaking" out of the house with pants on to go to church. Stuff like that happened at my church all the time. They couldn't show the love of Christ because they were too busy making sure everyone followed the rules. My sister and older brother both rebelled and left the church and have never gone back. My brother tells me I'm ****** for even thinking about it, he says I got out of prison and finally found some freedom, why go back to jail?

Deciding to go back to church, any church, was not easy. I kind of pictured them as all being like the one I grew up in. But I finally met some Christians who weren't like that. They would have all been branded as "liberals" and "heretics" and "not Bible believing" by my old church. But they are the only Christians I have ever met who showed what I feel is the love of Jesus. They really cared about people. They encouraged my wife and I to visit several churches because they aren't all like the one I grew up in.

Well, that's a long way to answer your question. I guess, officially, I am still a member of that church, so I am officially a "Baptist". But I want to belong to a church where I can, in good conscience, accept their faith and their teaching. We are investigating the teachings of the Episcopal church and they are very biblical, more so than Baptists are, IMHO. The church we are currently going to is most definitely one that knows how to show the love of Jesus, far more than the Baptists I know.

Dr. Bob · Feb 14, 2002

There are a lot of Baptists out there that I personally could not endure - preaching, rules, policies, methods for services, etc.

I found a church that is true to the Word of God doctrinally, and "endure" some of the nonsense for the sake of the Gospel.

Episcopal Church (English Catholic) is a good bunch, but not Gospel preaching. Pure and simple. I could not go there for one service, much less be a part of it. It, along with so many other churches, simply does not have the truth proclaimed.

Friend, if you are comfortable there, I would seriously look into your heart and examine your personal relationship with the Lord. No one has ever ever ever been saved in a Episcopal Service or in RC Mass. The Gospel is just not there.

p.s. Remember, not ALL Baptists are like you describe. Nor all Baptist churches. Nor all Gospel-preaching non-baptist churches (there are a bunch of them out there - Christian Missionary Alliance, Evangelical Free, Assemblies of God, etc). Find one that preaches the Word and find peace there.

David Cooke Jr · Feb 14, 2002

kwob02,
The important thing (besides salvation) is that you find a church home where you can grow in your faith, and have fellowship with your brothers and sisters in Christ. If the Episcopal church works for you, stay there.
That's not to say that you cannot find a good Baptist church. Many CBF churches have what you are looking for-a focus on the loving grace and good news of Jesus Christ, together with the freedoms of the individual and local congregation that belong to Baptists. You can find a CBF church near you by going to their website at cbfonline.org.(Many on this board will decry the CBF as "liberal", or worse, but they are mainstream Christian folk-do your own research).
However, if you are happy where you are, stay there. I can tell by how you write about it that you like it. Follow your heart and pray about it. It sounds like you may have found a home where you can grow. Good luck to you.

kwob02 · Feb 14, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:

Friend, if you are comfortable there, I would seriously look into your heart and examine your personal relationship with the Lord. No one has ever ever ever been saved in a Episcopal Service or in RC Mass. The Gospel is just not there.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Statements like this are exactly the reason why I can't bear the thought of going to a Baptist church. I heard them all the time. How do you know that no one has ever been saved in an Episcopal service or a Catholic mass, are you omnipotent, omnipresent and onmicient? Then you must be God.

Just because I can't tolerate the unbiblical, unchristian actions of Baptist behavior doesn't mean I would judge them as unsaved. That's a judgement reserved for God and even I know enough Bible to know that!

I'll tell you one thing. Those Episcopal folks are living out the gospel better than any Baptists I've known, with few exceptions. And I know that none of them would ever make such a statement about Baptists, or any other Christians for that matter.

I think you are the one who needs to look in your heart and find out what's there. If you can make a statement like this, and believe that there is nothing wrong with it, then you are the one with the problem.

David Cooke Jr · Feb 14, 2002

kwob02,
I can see why you prefer the Episcopal Church. God be with you.
By the way, I worshipped at two Episcopal churches in S.C. (my friend's father was rector)and a couple in Georgia. Even though I disagree with infant baptism, I loved it.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ]

Chris Temple · Feb 14, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Cooke, Jr.:
kwob02,
The important thing (besides salvation) is that you find a church home where you can grow in your faith, and have fellowship with your brothers and sisters in Christ. If the Episcopal church works for you, stay there.
That's not to say that you cannot find a good Baptist church. Many CBF churches have what you are looking for-a focus on the loving grace and good news of Jesus Christ, together with the freedoms of the individual and local congregation that belong to Baptists. You can find a CBF church near you by going to their website at cbfonline.org.(Many on this board will decry the CBF as "liberal", or worse, but they are mainstream Christian folk-do your own research).
However, if you are happy where you are, stay there. I can tell by how you write about it that you like it. Follow your heart and pray about it. It sounds like you may have found a home where you can grow. Good luck to you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice plug. But CBF churches should be avoided like the plague. They are anthropocentric - focused on the needs and desires of man - rather than theocentric - focused on the commandments and character of God Almighty.

If one is not right with God, it really doesn't matter what "church" they belong to - for all of their righteousness and works is as filthy rags to God.

Find a church that preaches the uncompromising gospel - that man is dead in their depravity and sin, yet God in his mercy and for the purpose of glorifying his own name, has chosen to save some who are deserving of eternal hell, that he atoned for the sins of those chosen, and wiped out the charges against them, nailing them to the cross, and that those who respond to the gospel call are saved and eternally held by the Father in security of salvation.

Any other gospel is anathema, and eternal death.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]

Chris Temple · Feb 14, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> is there some reason I should stay Baptist? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Become Christian, which is more important. Repent of your sin and place your trust in Christ as Lord and Savior, and make your calling and election sure.

Join a church that preaches and teaches the uncompromising gospel, and rightly administers the ordinances, and practices church discipline. Salvation is not based upon denominationalism, but upon the grace of God in Christ.

Chris Temple · Feb 14, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by nth78:

How do I reconcile what?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact that you are "Baptist" and your fiance is a catholic. If you are a Christian, the two faiths are antithetical to each other.

Christianity believes in salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Catholicism believes in faith plus works. It neither possesses, nor practices, any gospel at all. It heretically claims to sacrifice Christ in every mass, although he was the once and for all sacrifice. Catholicism also worships the virgin Mary, prays to her, and believes her to be co-redemtrix with Christ. She is called Queen of Heaven, and the pope prays to her for the salvation of the world.

And yes, I am a former catholic.

As a believer (if you are) you are commanded to not be unequally yoked. If your fiance claims to be a believer, and does not realize what the RCC teaches, he must come out of it. The RCC is an apostate, antichristian church.

David Cooke Jr · Feb 14, 2002

Chris,
Which CBF churches have you attended that disappointed you?

Lorelei · Feb 14, 2002

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by kwob02:

But the way most Baptists interpret and treat the Bible is something that I have a hard time with. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most Baptists that I know, myself included, treat the Bible as the Holy Word of God and feel it hold God's message to us on how to become saved and what God expects of His believers.

What exactly do you have a problem with?

Are you looking for a church that preaches the True Word of God, or one you can "feel comfortable" in?

If you just want a church that makes you feel good, then Baptist probably isn't the faith for you. We aren't about "feelings" we are about preaching, teaching, sharing, and living the Word of God. And frankly, sometimes that is tough. Our peace comes from God, not the Church we attend.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>John 16:33 I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

~Lorelei

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