Faith

is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

Since many Calvinists think that one cannot have faith without God first planting that seed for faith to be conceived at some point in time in the life of the "elect", why is it so easily seen and understood that for one to have faith that person must first choose what he believes?

I hope for that which is not yet seen, and the evidences of that faith are prevelent in my life. I also choose to believe that it is the workings of God to my benefit and His glory as things either happen or don't happen.

Then if I do things according to my will it is by my conscious choice to do so, so how then is it not my choice but yet was His choice all along?

I choose to take illegal drugs, per se, does that then become that God made me choose to take those drugs and thus become the originator of all sin? God forbid.

 

Bump back to the top.

I see no Calvinist can answer their quandry they love to hold to.

 

You have an awfully critical spirit about you in the way you respond to people, you do that by choice or not?

For a person to repent he first must be given space in time to repent, but that person must want to repent and he does that by his conscious choice.

You might better re-read Hebrews 6 again.

To renew some one again unto repentence is to allow them to have that space in time beforehand and they make a conscious choice to forsake that mercy. They had saving faith but chose otherwise.

I know that smacks Calvinists in the face with Scriptural truth, but what the hay, they need further enlightenment.

No one ever said there isn't God's outside influence, you introduce an impossibility.

God gives gifts of faith and repentence that doesn't always lead to salvation:Romans 12:3 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
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Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Now either paul was only speaking to believers and the Book of Romans can only apply to belivers, or just as the passage proclaims, God has given every man the measure of faith and it is up to that man to decide to either excercise that faith or let it die; and that alternately as the Lord has given multiple times for sinners to repent and excercise faith at different times, because although every man is under the condemnation for sin, not all men are under conviction perinially.

God has already reached down. His Son has already paid the price for the sins of all men, if He didn't pay the price for all men, then sin has dominion where God never allows it to.

I "co-operate" with the Lord everytime I acknowledge Him. He directs my paths in that acknowledgment. Just as Baalim co-operated with the voice of God through the donkey, else he would have met an angel with a flaming sword.

I cannot form corperation with God is what you probably refer to, God isn't partners with anyone.

Obedience is still better than sacrifice, well it is in my Bible, and trhat requires co-operation to the call to obedience from God for men everywhere to repent!

If as you have tried to say, one cannot believe until God allows or forces that believing, then you would have God imputing sin until that specific time, God FORBID!

 

I see when the Doc thinks himself right, but he has been proven wrong, he has nothing to say.

The ideal of Calvinism doesn't make it far past what some scholars try to interject, and that supposedly by a faith that doesn't require belief!

 

Please don't try to turn my post into anything of the like. My laughing is at the pun intent that faith doesn't require believing.

Dr. Bob knows how I feel about him, and I have also advised him in a couple of things. I understand his position and how it requires a stern response and would never refer to him having a bad day as you have.

 

Little mixed up in application of God dealing with Israel and the Gentiles? Yes.

I can have faith in something and it be false, but if I place my faith in Jesus Christ it is by choice according to what I believe and KNOW is truth.

I have had faith in false things before. I had a faith in my salvation before I was actually saved. Now did God's Sovereign will decide for me to live a life in a false belief? No. His Sovereign will is for all to comwe to repentence and for all to be saved, but since God gave each and every man a will of his own, man either chooses to believe God or not, for God chose the foolishness of preaching to save then that believe.