MMF - christian rock is evil

Actually Joey smoking and marijuana are terrible for your lungs and the Bible tells us that our bodies are the temple of God. So in that sense the Bible does say it's wrong though indirectly.

I just wonder how a Jacki Velaquez song is bad for my mental or spiritual health using that logic?

 

One thing I have noticed in my year wandering around message boards is that if someone does not want to be changed, they won't be. You can argue with them until you are blue in the face and it isn't going to make a grain of difference.

Until Next Post, Adam

 

I don't say all contmporary christian music is bad, I am talking about christian rock or maybe should define as heavy metal or grunge. There are many songs that are contemporary kinda like pop rock if you will, and I love them. I believe they give glory to God. I am more talking about this demonic beat and rythm of hard rock that I believe just leads to a demontic attitude weather you label it Christian music or whatever.

 

Thanks for the clarification Joey.

I personaly don't think Christian Rock such as Hard Rock or Heavy Metal belong in a worship service. I don't know of any Church that uses it in worship to be honest. I am actually pretty high church when it comes to worship music.

On the other hand I enjoy Christian rock such as Petra, Mortification, Rebecca St. James while out driving or around the house in a casual atmosphere. I find it uplifting and very spiritual. To say the beat is demonic I think is not warranted.

There is some valid criticism that can be made of CCM music, Praise and Worship and Southern Gospel concerning weak syrupy lyrics by many groups. I think that would be a good thread. To attack it because of a style one deems worldly because of one's personal preferance for music I believe misses the mark however.

 

I don't condemn them out of personal prefrence, because as I said before I played for many years in a heavy metal, grunge band. And was quite fond, more so obsessed with that type of music, and it toke alot of discpline after I got saved to put that type of music away.

[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: Joey M ]

 

Rebecca St. James is rock?!?!?!!?! Wha? I don't know how anyone could say she is evil!

Until Next Post, Adam

 

That girl can sing!

 

Joey, could you please give an example?

Exactly which beats are "demonic" and why?

Mike

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Joey, could you please give an example?
Exactly which beats are "demonic" and why?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Here is an example of demonic, and there are others worse than this. This is Petra.
Here is some lyrics from a song that is to me very ereverant: Carman-J.C. is in the house

You take Him high
You take Him low
You take J.C. wherever you go
Now tell me, who...who...who...who...who...who?
Tell me who's in the house? J.C.
Tell me who's in the house? J.C.
Tell me who's in the house? J.C.
Tell me who's in the house? J.C.
Jesus Christ is in the house today

That's heresy.
And his Holy Ghost hop is wicked too.

Jars of Clay openly doing cover tunes from such rock bands as Ozzy Osborne-Crazy Train.
Many Many others could be wrote down here.
Wake up!


God speed.

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Joey M ]

 

Joey,

Some of us who are CCM fans are it's biggest critics. I will agree with you on Carman's doctrinaly weak songs as well as AUDIO ANDRENALINE though I don't think I can disagree with them "They'll never be as big as Jesus".

The song you gave for PETRA is not PETRA but KISS. PETRA never rocked that hard! Valid criticism can be made of their song GOD GAVE ROCK N ROLL TO YOU but in defense of them they are stating that music is a gift from God.

STEVE TAYLOR has always used sarcasm in his music to expose hypocrisy in both the church and the world. His music is basically sermonettes though he is primarily a music producer today. Outsiders who are not familiar with TAYLOR often don't understand him.

STRYPER messed up. Michael Sweet has admitted that "I left Stryper a few years ago," he says, "and just got into the Word, into myself, where I was going, and how I was going to be toward my wife, family and especially to God. I realized that what I did was very, very wrong, and I repented of it. I know now that God has forgiven me, and I’m so grateful for another chance. I asked God to close every single door that He didn’t want me to go through, and He did. It was painful and humbling, but He knows what’s best for Michael Sweet."

The full interview is at http://www.ccmmagazine.com/Archives/fullstory.asp?Id=1132

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daniel:
These have been fascinating posts, folks. In fact, there have been some particularly thought-provoking items raised--particularly the one about Southern Gospel. I have been a full-time Minister of Music in independent Baptist churches for almost 19 years. I am also a private music instructor. God has also allowed me to minister in many different concert venues from coast to coast. I am 40 years old and have a teenage daughter and a nine year old son. With all that background painted for you, I can say that I have come to the conclusion that there are NO SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS ABOUT MUSIC STYLES IN THE BIBLE. They can't be found. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To understand how certain biblical admonitions apply to music a proper understanding of its nature is necessary. Music is more than the "pleasing" arrangement of sound. Like speech it is communication. Speech is primarily concerned with the communication of ideas. Music communicates mood; it communicates feelings, and it can do so despite our best cognitive efforts to resist it.


Music is also related to thought. It is "muse"-ick. The deities believed to inspire wisdom and learning were called muses. To muse is to think deeply and seriously about something, and who can deny the influence different musical expressions have on our thoughts? Throughout a composition the melodic structures of motive, phrase and theme, themselves named with words used to describe a person's train of thought, are combined and repeated until the intended aesthetic response is elicited, and this is the final meaninglfulness of music, its effect on the listener.

This is where the force of the Biblical admonitions is applied. The Bible has much to say about what should be the character of our general conversation as Christians. Therefore it has much to say about the character of our music.

I think I see the wisdom of the Early Church in forsaking the use of musical instruments in their worship, and using only those styles that were simple and agreeable to all.

 

Kiffin said:

STEVE TAYLOR has always used sarcasm in his music to expose hypocrisy in both the church and the world.

Indeed, and I'm still trying to find the "heresy" in that clip from "This Disco (Used to Be a Cute Cathedral)." Then again, it did come from www.av1611.org . . .

 

Kiffin,

My sound card's blown out so I'm not sure which Petra/KISS song you mean but if it's "God Gave Rock and Roll to You", it is indeed Petra. It was on their "Beat the System" album. The song was also done by KISS and Argent.

Joey,

We've demonstrated several times in other threads why av1611 shouldn't be taken seriously. Do you have any credible sources?

Better yet, since you were a drummer, can YOU explain why some beats are demonic?

Thank God for Steve Taylor. No one else in the church seems to want to say the things that need to be said. "I Predict 1990" should go down as one of the best albums in christian music (with "Circle Slide" a close second).

Mike

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

Kiffin,

Sorry. It was on "Come and Join Us" and "Petra: Captured in Time and Space", not "Beat the System".

Mike

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Joey,

We've demonstrated several times in other threads why av1611 shouldn't be taken seriously. Do you have any credible sources?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I only used that web site because they contain small clips of the music. I was showing you the music itself. Not what the website has to say. All I can say is if you can listen to it and give glory to God, go for it. Me myself, it disdracts me from God and gets me caught up into the world. So maybe it's just a prefrence thing after all.

God speed.

 

So are you saying that music is not demonic?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I don't say all contmporary christian music is bad, I am talking about christian rock or maybe should define as heavy metal or grunge. There are many songs that are contemporary kinda like pop rock if you will, and I love them. I believe they give glory to God. I am more talking about this demonic beat and rythm of hard rock that I believe just leads to a demontic attitude weather you label it Christian music or whatever. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're identifying hard stuff as "demonic", and I can pretty much go along with that, but what Watkins and the rest of the critics are calling "demonic" is not just the heavy sound or beat, but just the structure of h beat itself, even if it's light. --the "accents" of the percussion, and how much "syncopation" there is. This is where the scientific arguments come in, and frequently, the warning that it comes from tribal Africa.
Meanwhile, Watkins himself, with all that ranting about a "wicked" "worldly" style, is one of the people who apparently accepts country (or is that "bluegrass"). This is the sound used by the music ministry peddled on av1611.org. Other critics regard country as just as worldly and sensuous, including a writer Daniel says he worked with.

While Carman does get silly at times, I question these critics condemnation of "jive talking" as so "vulgar" or "blasphemous". People don't understand the language, so how can they claim that? It may not be the most theologically sound statement, but for spiritual "babes" coming of a street culture, it does help establish praise of God. But it often seems that black culture, both African and American, is the antithesis of Christianity to these critics.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Valid criticism can be made of their song GOD GAVE ROCK N ROLL TO YOU but in defense of them they are stating that music is a gift from God. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is how most of those critics take things out of context. Watkins goes on to scream about the phrase "Why should the Devil have all the good tunes": YOU MEAN GOD DOES NOT HAVE ONE SINGLE GOOD SONG? THIS IS PRAISING THE DEVIL! but what people meant by that was that more aesthtically pleasing music was being rejected as "of the devil", while the music being used for God was dry and somber, but why would this be so?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eric B:

This is how most of those critics take things out of context. Watkins goes on to scream about the phrase "Why should the Devil have all the good tunes": YOU MEAN GOD DOES NOT HAVE ONE SINGLE GOOD SONG? THIS IS PRAISING THE DEVIL! but what people meant by that was that more aesthtically pleasing music was being rejected as "of the devil", while the music being used for God was dry and somber, but why would this be so?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was not the issue at all. What you are calling "aesthetically pleasing" was more along the lines of "sensual." There is a difference. The decor of a room can be aesthetically pleasing without being sensual. So can music.

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Aaron ]

 

I listen to absolutely fantastic music from SOUNDFORTH MUSIC that thrills the heart to hear. It is aesthetically pleasing, but traditional.

 

Personally, I listen to contemporary Christian music most of the time. I don't listen to Christian rock or rap mainly because I don't like the beat, but this doesn't mean I don't believe it could not bless someone who does like that particular beat. Which I think these days are mostly young people(teens, young adults).I enjoy traditional Christian music also. Music blesses my soul, it moves me, especially some of my very favorite hymns.

I don't know what I would do if I went into church one Sunday and they told us there would be no music from our orchestra , or singing from our wonderful choir.

The only time I think music is evil is when it specifically speaks against God and/or glorifies sin.


Just As I Am,

Wilma