The T In The TULIP Doctrine

In addition to and in conjunction with Total Depravity, I also believe in Total Inability - that there is within man a complete inability to come to God. "No man CAN come unto me, except..." John 6:44. Some people that I know believe in total depravity but do not believe in total inability, although I'm not sure how they can reconcile that.

 

Clearly, no one can make themselves righteous by their own deeds before God. It is as we cling to Jesus that we are saved. Sometimes, however, total depravity is taken to mean that unredeemed mankind is incapable of doing or recognising good, and that God is deaf to their prayers. The story of Cornelius in Acts shows this to be false. God tells unconverted, gentile Cornelius "I have heard your prayers and seen your good works". While this is not enough to save him, he is told to send for Peter, it clearly shows that God does hear the prayers of the unsaved, and can declare their works to be good. Also, when Peter preaches at the beginning of Acts and the people are convicted, they cry "what must we do to be saved?" Peter does not correct them and state that "you can not do anything to be saved", but rather, he tells them to repent and be baptised.

 

When we speak of man's depravity we mean man's natural condition apart from any grace exerted by God to restrain or transform man.There is no doubt that man could perform more evil acts toward his fellow man than he does.But if he is restrained from performing more evil acts by motives that are not owing to his glad submission to God,then even his "virtue" is evil in the sight of God!Rom.14:23 says,"Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."This is an indictment of all natural "virtue" that does not flow from a heart humbly relying on God's grace.The terrible condition of man's heart will never be recognized by people who assess it only in relation to other men.Rom.14:23 makes plain that depravity is our condition in relation to God primarily,and only secondary in relation to man.Michael,Psa.121

 

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

Totally depraved man can be very religious. They can pray and give alms and fast,as Jesus said(Mt.6:1-18).But their very religion is rebllion against the rights of their Creator,if it does not come from a childlike heart of trust in the free grace of God.Religion is one of the chief ways that man conceals his unwillingness to forsake self-reliance and bank all his hopes on the unmerited mercy of God(Lk.18:9-14;Col.2:20-23).The totality of our rebellion is seen in Romans 3:9-10,18"I have already charged that all men,both Jews and Greeks,are under the power of sin,as it is written:None is righteous,no not one;no one seeks for God...There is no fear of God before their eyes."It is a myth that man in his natural state is genuinely seeking God.Men do seek God,but they do not seek Him for who He is!They seek Him in a pinch as one who might preserve them from death or enhance their worldly pleasures.Apart from conversion,no one comes to the light of God.

 

Some do come to the light,but listen to what Jn.3:20-21 says about them"Everyone who does evil hates the light,and does not come to the light,lest his deeds should be exposed.But he who does what is true comes to the light,that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God."Yes there are those who come to the light--namely those whose deeds are the work of God."Wrought in God" means worked by God.Apart from this gracious work of God all men hate the light of God and will not come to Him lest their evil be exposed--this is total rebellion."No one seeks for God..there is no fear of God before their eyes!"

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brutus:
Totally depraved man can be very religious. They can pray and give alms and fast,as Jesus said(Mt.6:1-18).But their very religion is rebllion against the rights of their Creator,if it does not come from a childlike heart of trust in the free grace of God....They seek Him in a pinch as one who might preserve them from death or enhance their worldly pleasures.Apart from conversion,no one comes to the light of God. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen. One of the great tragedies in modern churches today is "seeker-sensitivity"; "worhsip" services designed to be "attractive" to the lost. This is the popular Willow Creek and Saddleback model which dumbs down doctrine and worship for the sake of "making the seeker feel at home".

No one seeks after God, not in the act of repentance unless the Father draws him.

I like what Michael Horton has said: "We must be seeker-sensitive, but remember, it is God who is the One who seeks".

 

In Romans14:23 Paul says,"Whatever is not from faith is sin."Therefore,if all men are in total rebellion,everything that they do is the product of rebellion and cannot be an honor to God,but only part of their sinful rebellion.If a king teaches his subjects how to fight well and then those subjects rebel against their king and use the very skill he taught them to resist him,then even those skills become evil.Man does many things which he can only do because he is created in the image of God and which in the service of God could be praised.But in the service of man's self-justifying rebellion,these very things are sinful.In Romans7:18 Paul says,"I know that no good thing dwells in me,that is,in my flesh."This is a confession of the truth that in our rebellion nothing we think or feel is good.It's all a part of our rebellion.The fact that Paul qualifies his depravity with the words,"that is,in my flesh",shows that he is willing to affirm the good of anything that the Spirit of God produces in him,Rom.5:18."Flesh"refers to man in his natural state apart from the work of God's Spirit.So what Paul is saying in Rom.7:18 is that apart from the work of God's Spirit all we think and feel and do is not good.We must recognize that the word "good" has a broad range of meanings.And we must use it in a restricted sense to refer to many actions of fallen people which in relation are in fact not good.Example:we will have to say that it is good that most unbelievers do not kill and that some unbelievers perform acts of benevolence.What we mean when we call such actions good is that they more or less conform to the external pattern of life that God has commanded in Scripture.However,such outward conformity to the revealed will of God is not righteousness in relation to God.It is not done out of reliance on Him for His glory.He is not trusted for the resources,though He gives them all.Nor is His honor exalted,even though that's His will in all things,1Cor.10:31.Therefore even these "good"acts are part of our rebellion and are not"good"in the sense that really counts in the end--in relation to God.

 

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

In the theological sense man is Depraved but not Totally Depraved. Human beings are dependent on God bring personal salvation to man. A forgotten passage for some Christians is found in John 1:9. Jesus is ‘ . . . the true Light, Who lighteth every person that cometh into the world.' People early in life at least have a conscience and the gift of human intelligence. God had in His eternal plan that man would retain enough of His Image so that He could offer the call of the Gospel to humankind. Since He died at the Cross to save human beings, He can move on their hearts by the Holy Spirit in convincing people of their need of relationship with Almighty God. God's sovereignty is not all pervading otherwise He would have autocratically saved every human being who will have ever lived especially in the light that He died for every human being. [I John 2:2]. By doing this there would have been a coerced worship which would not have pleased the inner nature of the Living God. In stead of this scenario, the Lord offers salvation to all of His human creation and allows them the leverage to either receive Christ or to pass Him by as an unneeded Person. When a human being believes in Jesus he or she has entered into a lifetime of worship and adoration. This is clearly pleasing to the Triune God even our Father and our Elder brother, Jesus Christ. If humankind was Totally Depraved, God would have no hook with which to retrieve human beings back to His eternal fold.

As to John 1:9 Albert Barnes says, ‘ . . . the word ‘lighteth' has the form of the future tense. This is that Light so long expected and predicted, which as the result of its coming into the world, will ultimately enlighten all nations.'

Drs. Tasker, Blum, Matthew Henry and Reverends Raymond Brown, Albert Barnes agree on this matter.

The Adamic nature that old depraved nature remains in the sinner as well as the saint until the hour of death. We are accepted in the Son through His incomprehensible and most precious atonement and made fit for everlasting life with Him.

"Ray"

 

Australian Baptist Student,

I was impressed with your insight from Acts 2:37. I had forgotten this event in the life of Peter, especially the order of events leading to the people's salvation. It is true that the Holy Spirit works before the sinner opens his or her heart to the Lord. The non-Christian has intelligence and usually a conscience unless it is seared. It is because of these two Divinely implanted entities that God can begin to work on the sinner before their regeneration. Man is Depraved but not Totally Depraved. [Note: John 1:9]

Keep open to His truth.

Dr. Berrian

 

i would also use the term total depravity for sinners, but defining it as that the sinner cannot do anything to gain salvation. thus, alone, he has no way for salvation, even if he wants to be saved.

as far as the ability to trust Christ is concerned, i would like to emphasize on the work of the Spirit in sinners which is conviction. upon conviction, a sinner has the ability to believe in Christ or not. it's not actually irresistible! if a sinner receives Christ, then it will be Christ's righteousness which will be his "passport" to God the Father's acceptance. otherwise, he will be left with his works to show God, hoping for it to be sufficient for his salvation - which isn't.

[ September 05, 2002, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: Aki ]

 

Jesus said in John 5:40-

"And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."

Why didnt He say "ye can not come to me that ye might have life."