Question for Calvinists

All who have truly believed are elect, whether they recognize it or not.

 

Hi Rev G;
Truth is that Calvinist believe in unconditional election.In Other words they believe that only some are elected. A select few and those who are elected cannot refuse. That we have no choice in weather we are christian or not.That we will be christian if God wills it and we have no free will
Isn't this so?
Romanbear
Peace

 

Romanbear, Please tell me how one would be able to prove he had a free will.

 

No.

A calvinist believes that those who are elected will not refuse. That those who become Christians freely choose to follow Christ.

 

This is quoted out of a book called "Finding Peace in Life's Storms" by Charles Spurgeon

I qoute this only because Spurgeon is listed by many of you as a great calvinist. Yet, I find that he was not one who believed that God created some just for Hells fires.

Richard

 

That's because Spurgeon was a great Calvinist. He was just a very poor hyper-Calvinist.

 

The majority of Calvinists would agree 100% with the quote from Spurgeon. Those who go to hell go there because their sin condemns them. If you think Calvinism teaches something different then you misunderstand Calvinism.

 

Cute...

[ December 09, 2002, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

 

calvinists believe that the elect are irrisistiibly drawn to Christ so that they make a free decision to follow Him. Calvinists believe everyone has the responsibility to follow Christ, but only the elect will do so .

 

Chris! Welcome back! You continue to be in our prayers.

Joshua

 

Yes, "Calvinists" believe in unconditional election (God chooses to save undeserving sinners from what they deserve and from what they wrongly desire).

That there is no choice? No, "Calvinists" do not believe that. God liberates those whom He has chosen so that they can then freely choose Christ. I chose Christ freely, with my own will. However, I would have never done so if God had not changed my heart of stone into a heart of flesh, if He had not given sight to my blind eyes, if He had not unplugged my deaf ears. God, by His amazing grace, saves sinners!

You might want to read Augustine and Jonathan Edwards on the subject for a "Calvinistic" perspective on the issue.

Rev. G

 

Hello,
I was headed down the road of believing in Calvinism. Then I had a discussion with someone who was one and I turned away from it. He told me that I was probably not elect because I believed that I had to believe in Jesus for salvation.

He told me that it was impossible for me to believe on my own. He told me I did not believe, but God made me believe. Does anyone have a Scripture which teaches that He makes one believe?

Also is one saying that God has chosen some for heaven but others He chose to go to hell? Because if He has chosen some to be saved then that leaves many other people who are not saved. So, in essence to say that one is chosen to be saved there are also those who are chosen for an eternity in hell.

So, am I correct in saying that a Calvinist believes that God also chooses many people to go to hell?

HCL

 

That wasn't a "Calvinist." He just thought he was. "Calvinists" STRONGLY affirm "justification by faith alone." Not only that, but he had absolutely no right to say you "probably were not of the elect." Through such an arrogant statement he has shown himself to be ignorant of the Scriptures and of the writings of well-known "Calvinists."

God doesn't "make" people believe, but He does loose them from the bonds of sin to be able to believe. Faith is a gift (Eph. 2:8; Phil. 1:29). When one places faith in Christ, they DO believe!!!

Depends on which "Calvinist" you ask. Some say yes ("double-predestination"), some say no ("single-predestination"). Of course, the text we have to deal with on this issue is Romans 9:11-24.

 

If this person really said this and represented himself as a Calvinist, then he was either dishonest or misunderstood what Calvinism is. This is not Calvinism, but the heresy of hypercalvinism. Calvinists believe that every single person who believes in Christ is elect, and also that it is necessary to believe in order to be saved. Calvinists just believe that faith is evidence of election, not the cause of it.

Well, Calvinists don't believe that God forces people to believe, if that is what you mean by "God made me believe." We do believe that our faith is given to us by God, and that left completely alone, without the drawing work of the Holy Spirit, no one will believe. Our faith is the result of God's work within us.

The scripture?

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, ...to believe on Him....

John 6:64,65 But there are some of you that believe not....Therefore I said unto you, that no one can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The great majority of Calvinist believe that God elects to salvation; He does not elect to hell. We are all born condemned because of Adam's sin, and we all continue to condemn ourselves through our own sin. It is this condemnation because of sin that sends people to hell. Out of this group of already condemned sinners, God elects some to bring to salvation, but His election of some has no effect one way or the other on the rest.

I hope this helps you understand a little bit better what it is that Calvinists believe...

 

Well, if I'd know Rev G was responding and saying exactly the same thing, I could have saved myself some work.

 

Hi Biblestudent;
This quote below is very well put. Spurgon Being the man of God he was knew better didn't he.
_________________________________________________________________
#I qoute this only because Spurgeon is listed by many of you as a great calvinist. Yet, I find that he was not one who believed that God created some just for Hells fires.
__________________________________________________________________
May I also say that if one believes in free will you will have proablems believing in the rest of the 5 points of doctrine as a whole that Calvinist believe.
My personal opinion is that Spurgon was not a Calvinist.

Romanbear
Peace

 

Spurgeon also believed the will of man is in bondage to sin. This is completely in line with the Calvinistic teaching of depravity.

If the will is in bondage, then it requires not the choice of man, before, but after being acted upon by the Holy Spirit. This action is physically the drawing and believing. Anyone who comes and believes does so through the Holy Spirit, though they may believe they made the choice, it was made only after God quickened them, prior to this, they are dead in tresspasses and sin. (paraphrase: while we were yet dead he died for us, the just for the unjust.)

We cannot of ourselves do nothing. We are like Lazarus in the grave. Having been there so great a time we stinketh.

We must here the word of God piercing through the darkness of our spiritual death.

Spurgeon also praised the work of Calvin as one which never sidestepped scripture, if scripture seemed to disagree with him, Calvin presented scripture simply and plainly. We all would do good, myself included to heed the examples of these great men of God.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

This is spite of the volumes where Spurgeon himself claimed it. It is amazing how you know more about Spurgeon that Spurgeon knew about himself. ... Why would you even make this statement. I think what it may demonstrate is that you don't understand what Calvinism.

 

romanbear said:

May I also say that if one believes in free will you will have proablems believing in the rest of the 5 points of doctrine as a whole that Calvinist believe.
My personal opinion is that Spurgon was not a Calvinist.

Your personal opinion is at odds with objective reality, then.

Spurgeon was a Calvinist. He affirmed all five points of Calvinism without reservation.

He taught total depravity: "Human Inability"
He taught unconditional election: "Election"
He taught limited atonement: "Particular Redemption"
He taught irresistible grace: "Effectual Calling"
He taught the perseverance of the saints: "Final Perseverance"

In fact, when the Metropolitan Tabernacle opened its doors, he held a weekend Bible conference at which five guest speakers taught each of the five points of Calvinism:

Exposition of the Doctrines of Grace

And he didn't believe in free will, either:

Free Will - A Slave

[ December 12, 2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]