What is an Independent Baptist?

RevKev and Fundie Dan,
Amen!
We're independent (small i) Baptists...
totally DEPENDENT(!) on King Jesus. We thank God for our brethren of many stripes (both past & present)--i.e. Reformed Baptist, Southern Baptist, Bible Church, even...Presbyterian!!--that we learn from. That is the beauty of being part of the universal Church.
Nevertheless, we're a LOCAL church; ministering to the LOCAL people. So we feel no need to confer with a board across the nation to do what God has called us to do, here.
Breaking the molds is necessary, often, to get the "mold" off many Christians! Once a Sunday meetings with fellowship & a meal after is very helpful that way. It is also a way to care for the needs of the poor that attend the service.
Our goals are primiarily life-centered worship of the Almighty God & service in His name. It doesn't take a billion programs in the church, or an ecclesiastical board to do that. Just hearty study of the Word, diligent prayer together, the Lord's Supper, fellowship and going about being His witnesses in the abilities & giftings He's given.
It takes a lot of the headaches out of "church."
An argument about this simplistic style is the pastor doesn't have to answer to anyone. Brother, I've been in denominations where the pastor was supported regardless of his immoral life, lousy preaching, egotism, corruption of doctrine, and the rest. Being part of a denomination is NO INSURANCE that the leaders of the church will be kept pure.
The only way for the church to have godly leaders is for the pastors to keep humble before their God & the people to support their undershepherds with much prayer; exhorting them in love if they get off track. It isn't a clergy-laity situation, if the pastor is a servant-leader. It is an older-brother leading his siblings in love. BIG DIFFERENCE in attitude! And it makes a huge difference in the way a church is run.

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: PreacherDave ]

 

Well I suppose to each his own in some things but personally I have grown up in independent churches and would never be part of it again. The pastor should have to answer to someone else as a spiritual father over him and not "own" the pulpit. This is of course my own thoughts and I understand other folks may not feel the same.

Sue

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:
Well I suppose to each his own in some things but personally I have grown up in independent churches and would never be part of it again. The pastor should have to answer to someone else as a spiritual father over him and not "own" the pulpit. This is of course my own thoughts and I understand other folks may not feel the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe the Pastor does have a spiritual father he as to answer to. That is God the Father. Scripture is very clear on this. A Pastor should only have to answer to God, and he fears the governing body more than he fears the Lord, then there is something wrong. A Pastor should not have to choose between what he believes God has placed on his heart and what a "spiritual father" tells him is correct.

No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 16:13

Unfortunately, this is how the Catholic church performs. I know this sounds like a slam against the Catholic Church, but it only goes to prove a point. Once you start having to answer to someone other than God, you are bound by their interpretation of what is correct. Then who's to say they are correct, who do they answer to? Where does the cycle end? The Pope?

Sue, I am sorry you have had bad experiences in Independent Churches. But I am sure there are many like you who've had bad experiences in an [insert church here].

Dave

 

God is all of our ULTIMATE father to lean on and look up to but the bible also says we are to stay accountable to one another which is another reason why I believe being independent is actually unscriptural. The pastor may be spirit filled and led of God but he is also very human in a fleshly body who does perform in the flesh many times which is why I would guess God said to stay accountable so we don't fall and pastors are hardly an exception to this rule.

Please take no personal offense at that it is just really what I believe, bible based.

Sue

 

Sue, please understand, I take no offense to this what so ever! I believe we can have a disagreement and still have a good solid conversation.

 

There is one glaring problem with a pastor having a pastor over him.....where does it end? When do you get to the top? Eventually there is one man who is the "head man" or POPE...who does he answer to?

This is one of the many problems with the church housed in Rome. One man can speak for God and every one must obey. He can not be questioned his word is rule.

Independent Baptist preachers answer to God, their authority is the Word of God and any Baptist preacher who is worth anything will tell his congregation to study the Bible on their own to verify what he is preaching.

One problem with IBF churches is the people want to be spoon fed and are too lazy to study on their own. Most congregations in America wouldn't know if their pator is preaching truth or not, as they haven't taken the time to study their Bible. They never take notes in church as they are too busy thinking about their activities of the day, which probably don't include God in any way. Oh they may here some race driver or professional athlete praise their god for the victory thinking they are talking about God the Creator, but the God of creation isn't really concerned about the outcome of
an athletic event. No, the god they are praising is the god of this world not the God who made this world. ( Oops! that is another thread hehe)

I have been a member of an IBF church for 37 years and it is working the way God meant it. God has bleesed us with 2 Godly pastors our former pastor, and out present pastor. We ahve also sent out other men to pastor and do mission work. They don't answer to our church, but each new church is also independent.

Missionaries remain members or our church, training men to pastor churches they assist in starting.

Yes IBF churches work very well when done God"s way. Here is the catch....it takes WORK, PRAYER, adn BIBLE STUDY! Yes independent churces have been the Lord's way since the beginning. He never appointed area directors, he never formed a convention or fellowship(another name for convention).

There are Bible conferences, preachers conferences, and mission conferences where independent pastors can gather and discuss various prblems, blessings and have a time to share God's blessings. These meetings have nothing to do with how each church conducts teir business. This is difficult for those in convention churches to understand as they have been led to believe conventions are neccessary fior the exixtence of missions. We send out our owm missionaries..NO BOARDS!! Yes, it can and is being done an what blessing to see the Lord lead and provide

Ernie Brazee

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have been a member of an IBF church for 37 years ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't be a good IFB if you have been a member of the same church for 37 years. You should have been in at least 5 churches in that amount of time

 

I think we're missing the point of accountability. I'm not talking about having one main main over another and then one over him till you reach the top, thats called a buisness. I'm talking about being accountable to a group of other pastors as a support group who you will lean on and also who will come to you and say hey whats up with this why is this happening and pray with ya. There is no "top guy", but they all keep each other on track. God's word tells us to do this and I don't think he excluded pastors from this. Pastors are leaders in their chuch but that does not mean they are the top, it means that they also need accountability not just to God as we all have but to another brother in Christ...this is very biblical and I am not sure why it is so hard to understand.

Sue

 

Does anybody out there familiar with IB churches think they are legalistic? My sister thinks it is a legalistic church. I attended an IB church for years that taught a woman should not wear slacks because of what Deuteronomy 5:22 says. Is it true, does the Bible teach that a woman cannot wear slacks? Could anyone shed light on this subject, please?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kimmy:
Does anybody out there familiar with IB churches think they are legalistic? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are some that are and some that are not. For many, "legalistic" means more standards that they want to live by. However, I do believe there is a true legalism.

As for pants, there is a thread currently addresisng this (somewhere -- I can't remember). In short, I do not believe it is wrong for women to wear pants. There is certainly a time when it is appropriate and a time when it is not.

On Deut 22:5 there are two problems: 1) It refers to crossdressing, not women wearing pants (since pants didn't even exist then); 2) It is a part of the OT Law which NT Christians were freed from (Rom 10:4; Gal 3; Gal 5). Those who use Deut 22:5 to support a "no pants" policy are guilty of very poor exegesis and even worse theology.

 

Kimmy,

I personally believe that any church that preaches any man made rules or holds to rules for thier congregation is very legalistic. I would agree though with the pastor that pants for women are not wrong but it also has to do with personal conviction.

Sue

 

I have to respond to Sue's comment on the "Pastor having no one to lean on but God" in my opinion...that's all we need. Granted, even if the church is independant...they still have leadership within the church and you still have deacons and whatnot. There is a still a checks and balances system in place. The Pastor doesn't just decide things willy-nilly. There are congregational meetings. Subjects are placed before the congregation and voted upon where the majority wins. It's not just a church where the Pastor is ruler/decision maker/pastor. At least, not in any of the independant baptist churches I've attended.

 

Sue, just because a church doesn't come under the leadership of a board, doesn't mean they are going to fall apart. Or that the pastor is shaddy and won't be corrected if need be. My church has lots of boards, they make up the walls and the floors, and our pews. God put my Pastor right where he wants him. And HE is the leader of my church. Anything he sould do to lead people OTHER than in the ways of the Lord he will answer to God himself for. And just because you're not part of a "board" doesn't mean that you don't have folks you can lean on. Well, there's this message board. Theres Christ Jesus. There's the Holy Sprit, and by all rights we should go to him first. After all Jesus did say " In my places I shall send another, the comforter." Theres the people in your church. And if you're any kinda good Pastor you're going to know the folks in your church. How much more do we need. The church is not a Government. As to the subject on Ladys and pants wearin'. While I don't feel comfortable in them, I'm slowly starting to wear more and more dresses. AS well as submitting myself unto my husband and (through clinched teeth) growing my hair out. I don't like it long, he does. He is my husband and I was put here to bring joy to his life. So I guess you could say that it's really up to you and your husband weither or not you can wear pants. Mine doesn't mind it. Although through my own prayer, and Gods leading when I do happen to throw on a pair of jeans I make darn good and sure I have a long T-shirt to cover my behind as well.
When you have a dress or skirt on, you're covered. Pants, well anyone that wants to stare, can. God MADEme for my husband. Even before I was concieved, I was designed for Matt. Why should I show his design to everyone else?

-Paula

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: livin'intheword ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nicole:
I have to respond to Sue's comment on the "Pastor having no one to lean on but God" in my opinion...that's all we need. Granted, even if the church is independant...they still have leadership within the church and you still have deacons and whatnot. There is a still a checks and balances system in place. The Pastor doesn't just decide things willy-nilly. There are congregational meetings. Subjects are placed before the congregation and voted upon where the majority wins. It's not just a church where the Pastor is ruler/decision maker/pastor. At least, not in any of the independant baptist churches I've attended. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN to that sister! At my church, the Pastor has meetings with the male members of the church for various reasons...there is an accountability system and he even goes so far as to encourage the members to come to him WITH THE BIBLE if they believe he has erred or strayed from it.

By the way, the church has been around for oh, about 17 years now and doesn't appear to be falling apart in any way. God is good enough.

Kathy
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by livin'intheword:
Sue, just because a church doesn't come under the leadership of a board, doesn't mean they are going to fall apart. Or that the pastor is shaddy and won't be corrected if need be. My church has lots of boards, they make up the walls and the floors, and our pews. God put my Pastor right where he wants him. And HE is the leader of my church. Anything he sould do to lead people OTHER than in the ways of the Lord he will answer to God himself for. And just because you're not part of a "board" doesn't mean that you don't have folks you can lean on. Well, there's this message board. Theres Christ Jesus. There's the Holy Sprit, and by all rights we should go to him first. After all Jesus did say " In my places I shall send another, the comforter." Theres the people in your church. And if you're any kinda good Pastor you're going to know the folks in your church. How much more do we need. The church is not a Government. As to the subject on Ladys and pants wearin'. While I don't feel comfortable in them, I'm slowly starting to wear more and more dresses. AS well as submitting myself unto my husband and (through clinched teeth) growing my hair out. I don't like it long, he does. He is my husband and I was put here to bring joy to his life. So I guess you could say that it's really up to you and your husband weither or not you can wear pants. Mine doesn't mind it. Although through my own prayer, and Gods leading when I do happen to throw on a pair of jeans I make darn good and sure I have a long T-shirt to cover my behind as well.
When you have a dress or skirt on, you're covered. Pants, well anyone that wants to stare, can. God MADEme for my husband. Even before I was concieved, I was designed for Matt. Why should I show his design to everyone else?

-Paula

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: livin'intheword ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like her already! LoL You've got spunk girl! Stick around, we can use ya!


Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

I still say it looks like a FROG!! Teehee

 

The original question: What is an Independent Baptist?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>INDEPEND'ENT, n. One who, in religious affairs, maintains that every congregation of christians is a complete church, subject to no superior authority, and competent to perform every act of government in ecclesiastical affairs.

BAP'TIST, n.
1. One who administers baptism. This appellation is appropriately given to John, the forerunner of Christ.
2. As a contraction of Anabaptist, one who denies the doctrine of infant baptism, and maintains that baptism ought to be administered only to adults by immersing the body in water.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There ya go...LoL

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: Kathy ]

 

Thank You (noun)
[ from the phrase "thank you" used in expressing gratitude]

LoL Thanks for clearing that up for us Kathy. Does your last name happen to be...Webster? (ribbet, ribbet!)

-Paula

[ September 10, 2001: Message edited by: livin'intheword ]

 

Actually, my real name is Miss Right (but you can call me Always) *teehee*



Kathy
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