1 John 1:9 - Forever Forgiven

While I totally agree that all our sins are forgiven at the moment of conversion, I also believe that we still need to ask forgiveness to keep the fellowship with God what it should be. He gives us the perfect example of how it works by being called our heavenly Father. Once we are His child, we always will be, just as our children are always ours, no matter what they do, or how bad they might hurt us, or go against our rules. It is the same with God. But just like our children need to ask forgiveness to restore the fellowship with us, so we must do with God. But either way, God's grace is awesome!!

 

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

This verse does not say we have to ask forgiveness. Its says we have to confess or sight those sins to God.

When you first got saved all your sins were forgiven, past, present and future. However sins you do commit now take you out of fellowship with God and you need to admit them to God.

All sins were judged at the cross. You dont need to ask God to judge them again.

Simply say "Heavenly Father today I told a lie (or .......) and I thankyou that you sent Jesus to die for it, Amen"

Thats it. Asking for forgiveness or doing penants or feeling sorry for your sins or beating yourself up over them, will not change Gods Grace. These sins were judged already. The righteousness of God is free to pardon you because of the cross.

Remember all your sins, past, present and future were judged at the cross and forgiven at the point of salvation. If you never confess current sins you will still be saved but it just means you will be out of fellowship with God and subject to Divine discipline.

 

Ah, but Chet, our fellowship is tied in this passage to our walk, not our salvation! When we "walk," we either walk with God or without Him. Walking without Him damages our fellowship, and for that we must confess our sins as the verses in question indicate. If fellowship refers to salvation, then we can save one another ("have fellowship with one another"). Relationship deals with salvation: Father--children of God. Those are relationships. Fellowship by definition and application deals with interaction (walk). So the verses in question as well as the Lord's prayer are proof positive that we should regularly confess our sins before God!

 

Chet good brother,

I agree, in God there is no darkness at all.

"He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness" - but believers don't always follow Christ. Can we be following Christ and sin? Can we sin and be following Christ? Absolutely not! But we can and do walk in darkness when we sin, and for this we need repentance to restore our fellowship with God. You did not address my reasoning in my last post on the issue of fellowship vs. relationship. Would also like other's input on this.

Not sure how you intend John 14:20 to make a case here. Yes, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but that indwelling doesn't keep us from sinning. If it does, then I'm not saved!

Thanks for the compliment. Encouragement helps. God bless!

 

Blessings Chet,

You - We are forgiven all our sins - yes
Me - We are forgiven all our sins - yes

You - We need to ask for forgiveness when we sin
Me - No need to ask for forgiveness its been forgiven – Tell your wife next time you offend or let her down, “honey, I asked you to forgive me right after I said ‘I do’ once and for all! I’ll not say it again.”

You - 1 John teaches we can lose fellowship
Me - 1 John teaches we don’t even have salvation if we don’t have fellowship – true, relationship is a prerequisite of fellowship, but I sense you haven’t embraced their exclusivity. Once we make Jesus Lord of our lives, if you draw a graph of our relationship and fellowship, relationship is a flat line at the top of the graph – straight across! Fellowship is an up and down thing due to our sins/walk. Repentance restores estranged fellowship with Christ, much like it does with your wife. Chet, if you shrug off hurting your wife, and fail to apologize, does your fellowship with her suffer? I hope the answer is yes! Then how much more so our Lord Jesus Christ? This type of asking for forgiveness is an apology. It has nothing to do with asking Jesus to save us again. It is to restore fellowship. If you don't apologize to your wife, you are still husband and wife (relationship), but the fellowship needs mending by way of an apology.

You - We need to confess or acknowledge our sins to have a fellowship – Restore fellowship
Me - We should rest knowing nothing can separate our fellowship – Relationship: fellowship suffers and must be restored (wife example again).

You - Confession of sin must be an ongoing event in our life to commune with God – No, walk in the light.
Me - Our communion with God is never hindered by anything because of His grace – Communion is fellowship, which you again confuse with relationship.

You - We are given perfect righteousness to enter Salvation
Me- We are given perfect righteousness to enter not only Salvation but a fellowship – Yes, but fellowship is broken by sin and only repaired through repentance.

You - 1 John 1:9 is something intended to be done every time we sin – Correct!
Me - 1 John 1:9 is a one time event at the time of Salvation – Your wife wouldn’t like it, let alone our Lord!

You - We restore ourselves when we 1 John 1:9 ourselves. – Correct!
Me - He restored us even before we sin, therefore we can come boldly to Him

When they asked Jesus “how we should pray,” He said “Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.'" (Luke 11:4 NIV) Can't get away from that verse!

Beginning in Acts 8:18 we have the story of Simon who is a disciple. I believe it is a reasonable assumption to say that he is saved since he is active in Jesus’ ministry. But Simon asks wrongly for power, for a sign, and what does Peter tell him? “Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. (Acts 8:22 NIV)

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. (James 5:14-16 NIV)

The example here is to portray that broken fellowship can sometimes cause sickness. Notice very carefully Chet that it says “will be forgiven.” Who – “any one of you.” It’s talking to brothers about brothers. By your argument, it should have said “have been forgiven.” This is not talking about forgiveness unto salvation but forgiveness to restore fellowship. "so that you may be healed." - physically and spiritually (fellowship).

[ August 28, 2001: Message edited by: wellsjs ]

 

Chet said, "We will get into Jesus prayer. It is not a prayer for Salvation nor for the saved.

You used the word apologize. Great word. I agree we should be very apologetic.
A prayer could be one that includes an acknowledgment of sin, and a repentance of sin and one of being sorry. But regardless we are forgiven, so to keep saying “Please forgive me so I can come to your throne again” is an oxymoron."

On your last statement, I think we are on common ground and COULD conclude this discourse. If you wish to carry on into the Lord's Prayer, that would be great, because I like "sharpening iron together!"

On your first statement, perhaps you are speaking of the sermon on the mount in Matthew, but my reference is of a very similar "prayer teaching" in Luke that begins with:

One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples." He said to them, "When you pray, say: "'Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread. Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.'" (Luke 11:1-4 NIV)

This prayer is clearly a "disciple's prayer!"

God bless brother!