Earth Centered Universe

Well, we got way off subject when discussing extraterrestrials and I think this subject has to do with Biblical doctrine, so I am posting a new subject to further discuss this interesting theory of an Earth centered universe.

Two questions that I never did receive answers for were:

1. I described the boost given to spacecrafts fired to the East due to the Earth's rotation and was told that this was a 'relative' effect because space around the Earth is rotating. --Back to the ole Aether theory. I propose a question: If this is true, where does the space stop rotating, just above the atmosphere and if it is then particles will all be moving in the same direction at a high rate of speed, not necessarily just orbital velocities. If this effect goes to the surface of the Earth then the atmosphere would be carried with it and would circle the Earth every 24 hours. If it goes to the center of the Earth then the Earth itself would be effected. So, where does this rotation of space end in relation to the Earth?

The second question is that the rotation of the universe will reach the speed of light in less than one light year and even with theories of space warping theories this is a real stretch. Explain the speed of a star at 200 lightyears away and one 2 lightyears away. How fast would each be moving and how would they stay synchronized since it takes 200 years for light to reach Earth from one and only 2 years for the other?

 

Aaaawww, come on Bartholomew. Arguing science does not necessarily make one position stronger than the other as long as we understand that super-natural effects may have to be considered when dealing with creationism (which is the limitation of science today). I enjoy debating this subject; more than once I have changed my mind by being convinced (ask Helen), but I cannot understand your theories unless I ask questions first. So, I will continue, and I hope that you will continue with your line of reasoning.

Okay, as to your first answer, you must believe in some sort of Aether which rotates in order to have an effect on rockets being launched (as strong as the effect is) otherwise there is simply not enough mass, close enough to Earth to have such an effect. Does that make sense?

As for your second answer, I'll have to think about that one.

Okay, let me ask a question that is not so science related and related to the Bible--that I did not see an answer for. Does the beast in Revelations 13 really have ten heads? If not, what is the difference with me using the statement the 'sun rose' because even in today's scientific world, that is a perfectly adequate explanation of what occurred and would even be acceptable in a court of law under oath?

I am busy too, but not enough to take a few moments to discuss a subject that is important. Pls, don't use that as an excuse not to answer.

[ October 26, 2002, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]

 

Moderator, you may delete this post, it is an accident.
Thank you,

[ October 27, 2002, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Phillip ]

 

Okay, so call me uninformed, Who is Kepler and what does he believe? A link would be nice.

 

Dr. Griffin, I humbly respect your opinion, but would like to say that I feel that this is not a discussion of physics anymore than it is a discussion of interpretation of the Bible as limited to Baptists. Therefore, it should be kept away from the evolution section where there is no limit of who can discuss. Regardless of the 'limited' interest, you may be surprised at how many people in Baptist circles have different opinions on this and 'doctrine' is a harmless place to put it.
This is just my humble opinion and you may do as you wish as moderator,but consider that it may loose interest if it is hard to find or becomes part of the evolution section where it requires e-mail posting.
Thanks

 

I'm not arguing science any longer. It is futile and it's always changinig its mind, anyway (and it also backs up my position more than yours, but still, I'm not arguing it any more). Also, I am also far too busy to argue science.

We are all busy, but if this is such an important issue to you then scientific observation is a key issue....such as the fact that if you do not believe in Aether, then there is not enough force from gravitational objects such as the Sun and moon and other suns (due to their extreme distances) to cause a perfect effect on rockets. And when I use the word perfect, I mean it is awfully coincidental that the effect of a rotating space would give the EXACT same speed adjustments to rockets and satellites as a simple 24 hour rotatin of the Earth.

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew

The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. (Ecclesiastes 1:5)</font>[/QUOTE]

 

Let me make a point using the verse you yourself quote continuously:

The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. (Ecclesiastes 1:5)

If the sun ariseth and I am in the United States and I am in Asia it goeth down. Using your logic of ABSOLUTE interpretation of words, then there is a conflict. If I say it is rising, then I must be wrong if I have to say it goeth down at the same time.

 

Although you may believe in theistic evolution (which I'm assuming because of your non-literal interpretation of Genesis); this subject has nothing to do with evolution, I think there is never a question that Helen, Bartholomew and myself (the main posters on this subject) are NOT arguing evolution. If you wish to argue it, use that subject forum and go for it.

 

Uh, excuse me, but one more science question. I will keep it short.

I read the papers you indicated. They seem to go into great detail on perception based on 'point-of-view' etc. as related to their own brand of reality.

My question is this: How do you explain an object as massive as the Sun orbiting the Earth. If orbital physics still work properly; why do they work close to the Earth and change further out?

Let me give an example. A low orbiting satellite will travel at a high rate of speed, circling the Earth possibly in 90 minutes (we will use this altitude for sake of argument). By adding energy to the satellite we push it to a higher orbit, but we see a well documented phenomenon of a slowing down. This caused many problems with astronauts practicing docking in the early days of spaceflight, because accelerating forward towards a faster moving satellite caused the spacecraft to rise and therefore slow down, doing exactly opposite of the astronauts desire. To catch up with a satellite, the astronaut has to slow his craft down to loose energy and increase speed in a lower orbit, where he will then add energy at the correct moment after 'passing' the docking ship and raising his orbit slowing down to meet the docking ship. This is the reason most docking uses computers today.

Now, this proves that the theory of spacecraft behavior acts as if the Earth were rotating which will work for both of our theories. We know that a spacecraft in geosynchronous orbit is a certain high altitude orbit (I believe around 22,000 miles?) The GPS satellites are one half the height and rotate the Earth every twelve hours and the spy satellites I have worked with are only approximately 100 miles up giving an extremely fast orbit. The moon orbits at a correct orbital speed due to its altitude, BUT the Sun orbits at 24 hour period causing its orbit to be thrown out when we compare it to the physical constraints of relativity. If the geocentric theory actually causes a relative view then 24 hours indicates a speed which is way too high. While in reality the Earth revolves around the Sun in one year (approx.) which fits orbital mechanics. How do you justify the discrepency in orbital mechanics of the Sun?

 

Well, in reality, I was the one who kept the debate going. It was such an oddity for me to see such a hypothesis still being used that it actually fascinated me and I was curious to know how they justify what we know.

Bartholomew has always says he doesn't have time for the debate, but he seems to have an answer, even if I cannot accept it.

I've worked with too many guidance systems to know the Earth rotates and it is not space rotating around the Earth that will cause the effects we see. He never did give an explanation for voyager sending pictures of a perfectly functional sun-centered solar system. If voyager was spinning (with space) around the Earth, the Earth would remain right in the center of the picture and appear to be spinning, but not moving around the sun.

Oh, well, I guess we have beat this dead horse long enough. It was my fascination with such a strange belief that kept the ole mule alive.

My only problem occurred when Bartholomew made statements regarding a friend's view that a certain book in the Bible was not inspired by God. That is the only REAL issue I have had with Bartholomew--he can believe he is in the center of the universe all he wants to.