Body Piercing

Where did Jesus ever enter a bar? And where did I say anything about entering a bar anyway? And befriending a whore? Did Jesus become like the whore? Or did he call her to repentance and change? I have no problem entering a bar or putting my arms around drunks and drug addicts. I have done it. I do have a problem with getting drunk. So don't compare apples to oranges.

The issue is clear: What we do and what we look like communicate a message about who we are. That is why we are to be lights in the world and salt of the earth.

WHy do you think I don't preach to the unsaved? I don't have to look like them. I am convinced that people want something different. If we become like them, we have nothing to win them to. Like it or not, what we look like says something about us. That is why Scripture addresses such issues. My rhetoric is not making your job harder unless it is afflicting your conscience.

 

Post-it, I appreciate the compliment, but I am 54, have raised six children, and taught hundreds more in a period of almost 30 years of teaching.

I was raised near Berkeley and graduated from high school in the famous year of 1965. I saw it all. I lost friends in Viet Nam.

I'm not quite as young or naive as you think, I just don't carry gray hair genes...

 

Somehow I didn't exect you to make any change or movement from where you started this thread. But that's OK.

 

Actually, Janetta, I think you hit the nail on the head. It is true that what appears evil may differ to some extent in various cultures. This does not, by the way, change what evil IS or THAT it is, only in what APPEARS to be evil in various cultures.

In our culture, body piercing is a sign of rebellion and independence and sometimes association with a certain group of rebels. Thus, there is the appearance of evil with it. And, very simply, this is to be avoided. Perhaps in another culture it would not be associated with evil or rebellion or 'teen independence' or whatever; then it would be a different matter.

I appreciate you bringing all this up, though. It was interesting to me, too, to see who thought what and why.

 

Christ rebelled, Christ was independent, Christ associated with a group of rebels, and Christ was pierced. The Jews called him evil too and killed him for it. Who was evil again?... And how is scaring suppose to be bad?

[ July 28, 2002, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

What??? Christ was God. He didn't rebel. The Jews were wrong and committed murder in killing Jesus ... none of which has to do with anything in this discussion.

 

Well, post-it, I guess Christ did rebel. Against evil. Against hypocrisy. Against the ways of this world.

What He did NOT rebel against was God. He was/is God.

And to refer to a person punching holes in their skin for the sake of jewelry and being noticed with the piercing of Christ for our redemption as being somehow synonymous is pure blasphemy as far as I am concerned.

If that is how your theology works, in my opinion it is pretty twisted.

 

That last post of mine was written tongue-in-cheek. It was to point out that labels which you both are throwing around here and condemning acts without thought to detail is not a good idea.

If a tattoo or piercing was done in some rite for a Satanic or other religious cult belief or for harming others, then and only then can it be called "evil". If a kid or a military person is getting a tattoo etc because everyone else is, then it can't be evil, it may be stupid in your opinion, but it is not evil.

The appearance of evil is the last leg you are trying to support your belief on and it too is not strong enough either. To have the appearance of evil it must be a commonly held belief that at least a large number of those committing the act has a known active evil intent (such as example above). Since getting ears pierced is not a commonly held satanic ritual, then there is no "appearance of evil" nor is anything else being pierced at the Mall (unless you think the Mall is the Church of Satan. )

No evil, no appearance of evil. If you cry wolf too often, your children will not listen to you when there is a "real" evil threat that they face. Pick your battles carefully.

I personally would never put a tattoo on myself and I also warned my son back when he went through that stage not to do something that you later change your mind about but can't correct. I also used the fact that before getting a tattoo, he should look at a old military vet's tattoo now that it has aged. They look like giant blue birthmarks after about 30 years. That seem to have done the trick, he never got one.

Parents who are ignorant on how to talk to children find it easier to "control" them by using a twisted version of Biblical interpretation . That is the reason so many children end up rejecting the Bible in their teenage years. "Don't say it if it ain't true."

[ July 29, 2002, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

Let me see if I'm following this discussion correctly:

- There is nothing in the Bible against body piercing.
- Some people believe that doing so is a desecration of the body that is God's temple.
- Other people believe that piercing is an act of adornment or beautification of the aforementioned temple.
- Both groups are acting on their cultural norms.

Joshua
(Who has had an earring for well nigh twenty years and is rather fond of it.)

 

Oh boy, confession time. My wife bought me an earring about 10 years ago and I pierced my ear and wore it for about 3 months, then took it out. It just wasn't me, I'm way to conservative . The hole grew back so I have no sign of it being there. What we men won't do for our women...

I will now say 10 Hail Mary's and depart the confessional, see ya Joshua

 

What do these kids' parents tell them about it?
Surprised no one so far has suggested that you need to be careful not to usurp parental authority.

Karen

 

I think the decision about whether to pierce is clearly cultural. In some cultures it is the norm, in some it indicates rebellion, and in others it may indicate a healthy unwillingness to accept the status quo. The very fact that it can be viewed differently indicates that no single choice is correct for all individuals for all time. A young person with a thousand facial piercings might have trouble getting a job at a family theme-park. On the other hand, a Christian who is dedicated biker might be viewed as inauthentic if he/she had no tattoos or piercings.

-Neil (Who mainly has no tattoos and piercings because he realizes the fickleness of fashion!)

 

Post it,
Doesn't the Scripture say that, "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" Co 11:14

 

What's wrong Post-it, Cat got your tongue?

 

So it's ok as long as Iam wearing a "Jesus saves" t-shirt....

[ August 12, 2002, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: OvrDose ]

 

I found this link. While it may not be real specific it does have some scriptural background. It might help to do some research into how this practice is used in pagan religions too.

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/body_piercing.htm

 

I had an earring for a while and took it out and allowed my ear to heal (not for any sort of moral reason but just because I'm not one of those guys who can wear an earring).

Personally, I don't like body piercings or earrings on guys (again, not for moral reasons, but cultural reasons) but in cases where the Bible is silent, as I believe it is here, I find it's better just to live and let live.

[ August 12, 2002, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

Earrings in the KJV...

Genesis 24:22 And it came to pass, as the camels had done drinking, that the man took a golden earring of half a shekel weight, and two bracelets for her hands of ten shekels weight of gold;

Genesis 24:30 And it came to pass, when he saw the earring and bracelets upon his sister's hands, and when he heard the words of Rebekah his sister, saying, Thus spake the man unto me; that he came unto the man; and, behold, he stood by the camels at the well.

Genesis 24:47 And I asked her, and said, Whose daughter art thou? And she said, The daughter of Bethuel, Nahor's son, whom Milcah bare unto him: and I put the earring upon her face, and the bracelets upon her hands.

Genesis 35:4 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which were in their hand, and all their earrings which were in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which was by Shechem.

Exodus 32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.

Exodus 32:3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

Exodus 35:22 And they came, both men and women, as many as were willing hearted, and brought bracelets, and earrings, and rings, and tablets, all jewels of gold: and every man that offered offered an offering of gold unto the LORD.

Numbers 31:50 We have therefore brought an oblation for the LORD, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the LORD.

Judges 8:24 And Gideon said unto them, I would desire a request of you, that ye would give me every man the earrings of his prey. (For they had golden earrings, because they were Ishmaelites.)

Judges 8:25 And they answered, We will willingly give them. And they spread a garment, and did cast therein every man the earrings of his prey.

Judges 8:26 And the weight of the golden earrings that he requested was a thousand and seven hundred shekels of gold; beside ornaments, and collars, and purple raiment that was on the kings of Midian, and beside the chains that were about their camels' necks.

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

Proverbs 25:12 As an earring of gold, and an ornament of fine gold, so is a wise reprover upon an obedient ear.

Isaiah 3:20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,

Ezekiel 16:12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

Hosea 2:13 And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith the LORD.

IMHO, it does seem that at least two of those verses look at men's earrings in a negative light.

But... I am just havin' some fun here on the ole' BB late at night.

 

I don't feel like breaking out the BHS because I'm on my way to bed, but I'm pretty sure that this was a ring through her nose.

Joshua