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From Father God to Mother Earth

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by new man, Oct 20, 2002.

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  1. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I suspect we have very different ideas of submission...

    What I mean by submission is a relationship of trust where you *know* that the person being submitted to is looking after your best interests and is there to serve you. You can submit (give yourself over) because of that trust.

    When we will "know as we are known", we will have that kind of relationship with Christ. Yes, He is and will always be Lord, but He also condescends to us in love.

    A love relationship always involves some level of submission to one who is loved.
     
    #41 Baptist Believer, Oct 22, 2002
  2. new man

    new man New Member

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    You are redefining God. God's "Holy Otherness?" And someone had the nerve to chastise me for using the slippery slope argument? Once again the slippery slope has proven slippery indeed!

    First, the idea that "feminine as well as masculine attributes must reflect God’s nature" does not denote the existence of "God the Mother". It is true that the creation of both man and woman in the image of God must manifest a complementarity which represents the being of God (cf. Gen.1:27c). But this is not at all indicative of an actual "Mother God". In fact, the image of God in Scripture is not so much represented by gender but by the attributes of righteousness, holiness and knowledge (Eph.4:24; Col 3:10). To root the image of God in the notion of gender is a "red herring" and has only become vogue because of political correctness and in the interests of feminism. Second, it would seem that to address God as "Mother" is being falsely justified on the basis of certain Scriptures which attribute feminine characteristics to God. The reverend is quite correct to say that God is spirit and therefore cannot possibly be either male or female. He is also correct to say that feminine imagery is used metaphorically in Scripture to describe the character of God (e.g. Isa.66:13; Psa.131; Matt.23:37). But while the use of such imagery is perfectly orthodox - our great God being a nurturing God - it is entirely specious to then make the leap into directly addressing God as Mother.

    It is important for us to understand what is being confused here. The fact that feminine imagery is used to denote the character of God does not give us leave to address God as a female person. It is not because God happens to have ‘fatherly attributes’ that we pray to Him as "Father". The reason we pray in this manner is because He IS the Father! It has been said that this matter of the nature of God as the Father is not some nominal issue to be idly debated on a wet afternoon in the ivory towers of a theological seminary. This is part of the very ground on which the faith will stand or fall during the next decade. To take away the use of male pronouns in reference to Deity would do irreparable damage to the doctrine of the Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit - upon which a true understanding of the Godhead of Scripture depends.

    Above all, we speak specifically of the Father and the Son because the Lord Jesus Christ did so (Jn.6:40; 10:36; 14:13). Even more to the point, we can wholeheartedly pray to God as Father because the Lord Jesus Christ did so (e.g., Matt.11:25; Jn.17:1). Only the most rebellious persons would dare to set themselves against the pattern laid down by the founder of the Christian faith.

    Russ <><
     
    #42 new man, Oct 22, 2002
  3. new man

    new man New Member

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    I believe in God the Father Almighty,
    Creator of Heaven and Earth.
    I believe in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord.
    He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
    and born of the Virgin Mary.
    He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died and was buried.
    He descended to the dead.
    On the third day he rose again.
    He ascended into heaven and is seated
    at the right hand of the Father.
    He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
    I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church,
    the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body and life everlasting. Amen.
     
    #43 new man, Oct 22, 2002
  4. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    If you filled one room with a hundred mothers and one room with a hundred fathers, the only thing that would be true about every single person in the father room would be that they had the reproductive organs. Since God has no reproductive organs, then the distinction between God as "Father" and God as "Mother" is a superfluous one.

    How is God who is Mother and Father different from God who is Father?

    Joshua

    [ October 23, 2002, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua ]
     
    #44 Rev. Joshua, Oct 22, 2002
  5. new man

    new man New Member

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    God said He is Father. What part of that don't you understand brother?

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;

    [ October 22, 2002, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: new man ]
     
    #45 new man, Oct 22, 2002
  6. Pennsylvania Jim

    Pennsylvania Jim New Member

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    #46 Pennsylvania Jim, Oct 22, 2002
  7. new man

    new man New Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #47 new man, Oct 23, 2002
  8. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    How is this redefining God? That's the heart of the Jewish understanding of the nature of God. God is Holy and Other. Even the very name of God is unspeakable. That's not some whacko, liberal understanding of God. That's fundamental, Judeo-Christian theology.

    Joshua
     
    #48 Rev. Joshua, Oct 23, 2002
  9. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    I've skimmed this thread looking for mention of a particular verse that I can't seem to find. I seem to recall a verse (in one of the prophets?) about God nursing someone from his breast. Does this ring a bell with anyone, or am I way past my bedtime?
     
    #49 BrianT, Oct 23, 2002
  10. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly New Member

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    There's mention in Isaiah of Jerusalem's breasts, but I can't recall the verse you're speaking of.
     
    #50 stubbornkelly, Oct 23, 2002
  11. new man

    new man New Member

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    In the world of liberal theology, one must be ever on guard against "doublespeak." Thanks for the clarification.

    Russ &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
    #51 new man, Oct 23, 2002
  12. John3v36

    John3v36 New Member

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    How is this redefining God? That's the heart of the Jewish understanding of the nature of God. God is Holy and Other. Even the very name of God is unspeakable. That's not some whacko, liberal understanding of God. That's fundamental, Judeo-Christian theology.

    Joshua[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Mr. Villines

    What is your understanding of the Following passage. (In the man-woman contexts)

    1 Corinthians 11:7
    For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
     
    #52 John3v36, Oct 23, 2002
  13. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Really? I'd love it if someone posted the reference. Many of us would find the reference quite titilating. :eek:
     
    #53 Johnv, Oct 23, 2002
  14. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I think it may be this one:

    But Zion said, "The Lord has forsaken me,
    the Lord has forgotten me."

    "Can a mother forget the baby at her breast
    and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
    Though she may forget,
    I will not forget you!
    See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands;
    your walls are ever before me.
    Your sons hasten back,
    and those who laid you waste depart from you.
    Lift up your eeys and look around;
    all your sons gather and come to you."

    Isaiah 49:14-18
     
    #54 Helen, Oct 23, 2002
  15. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Or perhaps even Isaiah 60:16
    "Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #55 Jim1999, Oct 23, 2002
  16. Mark-in-Tx

    Mark-in-Tx New Member

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    To the ones saying, "He has to be male he has to be male" are you saying God has male genitalia? If he doesn't and saying Father in a prayer is a way of relating to God then why would their be no room to relate to him as mother or brother or friend or counselor or Lord. :rolleyes:
     
    #56 Mark-in-Tx, Oct 23, 2002
  17. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    He refers to Himself as He, Mark. I am not one to argue. It has nothing to do with sexual attributes, by the way!
     
    #57 Helen, Oct 23, 2002
  18. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly New Member

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    I'm confused. What is meant by the sexual pronouns, then? If "he" and "she" have nothing to do with sexual atrributes (I'm included genered attributes in "sexual," BTW), what purpose do they serve? Why do we use them? What difference, then, would the pronoun make?
     
    #58 stubbornkelly, Oct 23, 2002
  19. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    There are a lot more differences between male and female than the sex organs, Kelly! The woman was the one deceived. God cannot be deceived.

    The man is given headship in the home and church. Christ is the head of the body.

    It's that sort of thing, not a sexual thing.
     
    #59 Helen, Oct 23, 2002
  20. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly New Member

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    I thought I'd included gender differences (oh - I spelled it "genered" attributes [​IMG] ) in my question. But okay, I think I get you. You're not using "he" as far as genitals (which I wouldn't have expected you to dom anyway), but you are making a gender distinction. Masculinity, in other words (which has to do with gender, not sex, IMO). But is it masculinity to the exclusion of femininity?

    I was just a little confused when you said "he" had nothing to do with sexual attributes. Most people do equate sex with gender, and that's where I was working from.
     
    #60 stubbornkelly, Oct 23, 2002
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