Jeremiah 10

Jeremiah 10:[1] Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

[2] Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

[3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

[4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Just wanted to find out if anyone saw similarities between these verses of scripture and the coming holiday next month... And the yearly Xmas tree?... Brother Glen

[ November 27, 2002, 04:12 AM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

No, no similarities, because that passage is about cutting down a tree and then using the wood to make an idol.

How many people worship material possesions? Hasn't a christmas tree become a symbol of materialism?

Originally posted by jcrowe:
How many people worship material possesions? Hasn't a christmas tree become a symbol of materialism?

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For some, maybe. But so have DVD players, sports cars, and designer clothes, and Jer 10 isn't talking about those either.

tyndale1946,

It's funny that I found your post here today. I was getting ready to start one about this very subject. At my house we've always had christmas trees, every Christmas. Usually plastic one, but sometimes real ones too. This year, my hubby and I have decided not to have a tree because of this scripture. We've talked about it for years. In the past though, we weren't yet ready to shake the worldly tradition we think the christmas tree represents. We've always told our children that Santa Claus was a myth like the Easter Bunny, not real like God and Jesus. We've always celebrated with presents too. Like when the wise men brought presents to the baby jesus. I don't know if we will go without the christmas tree for the rest of our lives or not. This year is a sort of experiment, to see if we have a peaceful heart about it or not.

I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has chosen to forgo the christmas tree because of this passage, or it's pagan connotations.

Thanks for the thread.

Miss Maggie

Because when I attended a Holiness Church for years this same thing was taught. That having Christmas trees was sin.

I have heard all the arguments about December 25th being Saturnalia originally and all the pagan connotations that goes along with Christmas and EAster. Yet those who cut down trees and decorated them with silver and gold did this to worship the tree as an idol. A deity. I don't believe anyone looks at the Christmas tree as a deity or a God.

Another argument can be used that most do not use real trees and the trees are rarely just decorated with silver and gold.

Yes we know Jesus was not born this time of the year but what does it hurt Christianity to celebrate his birth because in doing so we look forward to his death and our celebration of freedom from our sins.

Everything that is ever done is commercialized or trivialized. Any one thing can be converted to a god to be worshipped.

I don't think having a Christmas tree is sin.
But, we don't have one in our house for the simple reason that we keep the focus on Christ.

We have a manger set up on a table and the gifts go under it. Each night when we do our family reading we bring out a new figure. The Boys love it.

[ December 04, 2002, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: John3v36 ]

If we look at the next 2 verses we see clearly what is the idea.
Jer 10:5-6
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
(KJV)

Something else to note. See that it is a piece of wood and not the whole tree.
Jer 10:3-6
3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; because it is wood cut from the forest, the work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.
4 "They decorate {it} with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers so that it will not totter.
5 "Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field are they, and they cannot speak; they must be carried, because they cannot walk! Do not fear them, for they can do no harm, nor can they do any good."
6 There is none like you, O LORD; you are great, and great is your name in might.
(NAU)

6086 `ets (ates);

from 6095; a tree (from its firmness); hence, wood (plural sticks):

KJV-- + carpenter, gallows, helve, + pine, plank, staff, stalk, stick, stock, timber, tree, wood.

This quite clearly is an idol. We do not worship a Christmas tree. We have chosen to make it a symbol of Christmas. If Christ is honored then how can it be bad? In all things give Jesus the glory.

[ December 04, 2002, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: rkbo ]

One has stated: "I don't believe anyone looks at the Christmas tree as a deity or a God. And yet another said: "We do not worship a Christmas tree".

The granny sez~"Oh yeah? Then just try taking it away from someone or telling them they can't have one!"

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
One has stated: "I don't believe anyone looks at the Christmas tree as a deity or a God. And yet another said: "We do not worship a Christmas tree".

The granny sez~"Oh yeah? Then just try taking it away from someone or telling them they can't have one!"

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Come on, Granny. I'm sure I'd give up my Christmas tree a lot easier than you'd give up your KJV or your shotgun. Do you worship those things or think they are a deity?

Does anyone seriously think that Jeremiah was talking about a Christmas tree??? I mean after all, the birth of Christ was still 700 or so years away and the advent of Christmas trees much further. I believe whatever Jeremiah was talking about had real meaning for his readers and therefore it is clear that Jeremiah was most certianly not talking about a Christmas tree. It would have meant nothing to his readers.

A Christmas tree is not wrong. It doesn't represent materialism though the things under it might. If Christmas trees cause you to violate your conscience, then by all means, avoid one. However, it is unwise to use Scripture out of context and make it refer to something it was never meant to refer to.

BrianT! I sure think the KJBible is God's Word and the Word was God and God is deity...So no, don't try to take my 66-caliber big gun away(nor my shotgun,haha!)

Son, you should know by now not to put that ol' crooked tree in the same category as my straight stick!

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
BrianT! I sure think the KJBible is God's Word and the Word was God and God is deity

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Um, that response was unexpected.

Son, you should know by now not to put that ol' crooked tree in the same category as my straight stick!

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Granny, my point was that I no more worship a Christmas tree than you worship your shotgun. But I can see how that point might be lost on someone who confuses their KJV for God himself.

BrianT! The point is...you took a silly little remark I made earlier and have tried to turn it into a debate...do ya miss me that much in the Versions/Translations room? [you don't hafta answer]

I'm not debating. Just astounded.

The evergreen tree has always been accepted as the symbol for life. We never had an evergreen tree indoors, but we did add decorations to the natural tree which is in front of our parlour window. That tree is now over 30 feet tall and the children are long gone from home, so we don't decorate it anymore.

I don't worship that tree, but I do admire it.

Cheers, and Happy Christ's Day!

Jim

That's okay, BrianT, I was astonished when I learned the truth, too!

Come on Guys and Gals...

Trees were formed into idols representing phallus symbols used in worship of whatever reproduction gods that were or are imagined..

duh..even the May Pole..

Even in odd societies..like the Aztecs had those symbols carved into their buildings..

or...even TODAY those symbols exist in many eastern countries....

so our christmas tree of today is harmless unless you have a real large imagination.....

Jeremiah was speaking of idols that were used in reproductive worship, or temples of prostitution usually having a nearby "grove of trees".,

[ December 04, 2002, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

Two things are certain: If we're really supposed to be concerned about pagan roots, we should abandon the names of the seven days of the week, since they're all named after mythological figures.

Second, if we look really hard, there's probably not a single day of the year that isn't a pagan day of something-or-other, or a single items that isn't a pagan symbol of this-or-that.

Finally, since Jer10 talks about living trees and silver or gold, I guess that counts me out. My tree is artificial (thanks to asthma) and my ornaments are glass, thanks to Target having them on sale for 1.99 for a box of 15

Originally posted by Johnv:

Finally, since Jer10 talks about living trees and silver or gold, I guess that counts me out. My tree is artificial (thanks to asthma) and my ornaments are glass, thanks to Target having them on sale for 1.99 for a box of 15

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Is it talking of living trees. Once it is cut down and "fashioned," it is no longer living, is it? Besides that, you need to make a fair comparison. You can correct me if I am wrong here but are not most artificial trees made with some sort of plastic involved. If so where does the plastic come from? Petroleum by-products? What about the petroleum? Originally it came from carbon-containing organisms (living organism) trapped beneath sedimentary rock thousands of years ago. Over time it liquefied and combined with other chemicals to form petroleum. Thus the artificial tree you have originally came from "life" also.
DHK