True vs. False Spiritual Knowledge

1. You are not the first, not the wisest, and not the most knowledgeable in Scripture to have looked into a number of these points. It might behoove you to read what some others have said along these lines.

Helen I realize I'm not the first I was stating we should look here with integrity. I said this because of the accusitory words of another person if you would have read just a bit of his post. But I do appreciate the kind reminder and your humilty.

No I'm certainly not the wisest by far and I have read somethings as we all do but it doesn't make sense to me so I chose to seek it on my own, I prefer it that way

2. The bronze snake is NOT a) a serpent in the Hebrew and b) a type of Christ. It is the lifting up which is the type, not that which was lifted up. Please read John 3:14-15 carefully.

I 100% understand you but even as it was the lifting up I think it strange that God used a "bronze snake" (lets say) Bronze is typed in other places as well this is only one single picture I have other pictures as well I'm looking at. Every word is perfect i realize so I don't want to just see the "lifting up" if my Lord was "lifted up" I want to see the "representative" in the similitude and compare. So then I'm back to looking at why God chose a bronze image of a snake?

4. The Trinity is most DEFINITELY in Scripture, although not by that name. At the bottom of this post is a letter I wrote to a young lady some years ago regarding what the Jehovah's Witnesses were teaching her.

As I have already said it is not but I do understand the trinity I just put it in the words that I chose to express this. Its more simplistic then that for me

Thank you for sharing your letter with me

In Him Kim

P.S I could use the hebrew word (if you have a chance) For the word used in the picture when Moses casted down His "rod" what was the name of the thing it "became" and is it seen elsewhere i scripture?) Thanks in advance

[ March 23, 2002, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Dear Kim,

Yes, again you are correct in that the serpent was created before Adam and Eve.

If however we are going to say that the serpent was included in the "us" of the "elohim" then (which is my other point) the serpent must be eternal (in my view) because of the YHWH connective name : YHWH-Elohim, in other words all those persons or entities within the elohim godhead are eternal. This,to me, would exclude any created beings. If one is saying that the serpent is a metaphorical way of speaking of Christ, well that is an unusual interpretation of Scripture. One I have difficulties with. Although I do see your point and the connection concerning Moses rod.

Kim, another noteworthy point: When God told Moses to "make a serpent" He used the word "seraph" (out of which we get the biblical word "seraphim").
In the context the best translation of this word probably would have been "make a torch". A fire on a pole.
Moses ended up making a "nachash". A copper (or bronze) image of a serpent.
Not what God had originally said.
I thought perhaps this might interest you.

HankD

[ March 24, 2002, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

HankD,

I completely see what your saying, but let me run something past you (and yes I'm looking at representation here)someone else made an "Ark" so there are places where things were "made" to stand as "representatives" in similitudes throughout scripture which can speak of Christ. Just as the "Ark". See what I'm saying? Christ is seen as a "lion" of the tribe of judah (far from the words of my roaring) Jesus says agree with thine adversary. As I'm trying to see that Moses was a mediator for the Law I'm seeing as the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden.

I'm trying to understand God through what was made, giving careful attention to each word and its purpose. There are so many places I'm seeing Him as a "bear" bereaved of welps" a leopard by the wayside etc. So God uses cetain things to express spiritual truths and I just want to be open to it and not explain it away.

The Serpent then was actually used in that regard (through this tree) to make man become "like one of us" in knowing good and evil.

God decieved one of His prophets, "Oh Lord thou hast decieved me and I was decieved". So it is not unlike Him to do this for a purpose and can also be seen in this picture as a good purposed for which He purposed in Christ. The law as Moses "accuses us" we agree with our adversary if we don't we "lie" against "the Truth". Can you catch what I'm saying?

HankD your a breath of fresh air here to talk to I must admit I love your openess and lack of offense in discussing these things. Its rare

In Him Kim

 

Dear Kim,

Yes, I have often wondered about that passage in Jeremiah when he accused God of having deceived him.

Here is another place in Scripture that was astonishing to me when I first read it.

The prophet Micaiah is prophecying to Ahab king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah.

2 Chronicles 18:
18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.
19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
23 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?

Anyway, I do understand what you are saying about the Serpent, but I'm having difficulty in the identity with Christ.

HankD

[ March 24, 2002, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Star, could you say clearly what is your point about Satan and Jesus? Do you believe they are the same? Do you believe in the trinity? Do you believe Satan is part of the trinity? I think you are vague. Perhaps you aren't and just I need clarification? Please answer in unmistakably clear dialog for my sake. Thank you.

 

What I'm saying Preach is that God speaks in similitudes and I want to understand what this means as to how it pertains to christ.
First off Moses lifted up a "bazen snake" (or serpent) this speaks of the cross of Christ, I understand this. My question and seeking with the Lord is "why" He used a Serpent or a snake see? Now in studying this I'm looking at a whole lot of other pictures. Like Serpent who was in the garden of God, seens as every precious stone adorning Him. He was also one who COVERED am I seeing this correctly? You tell me. Now I also see Moses Rod (Authority of God) CAST DOWN and BECOMES A SERPENT... So I'm asking "why" what does this mean? I'm curious so I'm looking into these things. So up on that Cross I see a Sinless person Jesus Christ... BUT WAIT... HE BECAME SIN (for us) See what I'm getting at? He also is one who covers.

Now heres the problem. The Serpent exalted Himself, Christ humbled Himself. BUT we still have to remember Christ BECAME SIN (OUR SINS) and if this was one of "ours" manifesting itself in the picture then I can understand it.

Another thought. What was each seed to do to the other? One would strike His heel correct? But who was the one as Christ himself said who LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST HIM, see? Christ was BRUISED for OUR INIQUITIES. Who was supposed to be crushed bruised etc see what I'm getting at? So the pictures are not panning out as prophesied in one sense to me yet they are in this sense.

Theres alot of "fairy tales" and fables concerning the Serpent I'm only interested in the ones in scripture.

Another thing. God is said to have made the deaf blind, and dumb. Jesus's Messiahship (as seen as John percieved him and what was written of Him) seemed to be the one who made "The bling see, deaf to hear, etc" (in the gospels and in the Old Testament He was to fulfill). But in the gospels others saw these things as "Satan" thus Christ cast them out See? So I'm trying to recconcile these things. For one Christ said if Satan casts out Satan His kingdom is divided and cannot stand. Yet Christ is seen showing the present Kingdom is not His and the sacrifices and offerings of the Old covenant hath an end as well see? So I'm looking into these things, I think my questions are honest and look straight at the word and stare it in the face without appologizing for what is written, looking for God to explain these things to me.

There is much more. Satan was to eat the dust. But in Job he's seen as "meat". But so also is Christ. I want these recconciled to a better understanding in myself as to how they relate to each other as well as consider why both seem so closely related in some way.

If God did not want these so confused He should have put a "lamb" on the pole in the similitude He chose to use. I'm not saying God is mistaken but I want to know and understand these things to give an an answer.I want to feel satisfied with knowing its truth and not something I'm "explaining away" because I'm uncomfortable with it.

These very things come up in conversation in new believers as well with those who don't believe like a "common curiosity" we must shut down, but I'm not fearful in appraoching the issue.

In Him Kim

P.S Just adding this in. The one who lifted himself up against Christ (As He refered to as His heel) Is seen as "A MAN MINE EQUAL"

in Psalm 55:18 But [it was] thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance. (Yet Satan entered Him) and it was Gods will at the time to fulfill His words but Satan is helping Him fulfill Gods words, just as in the Garden He lures Eve to the Tree I believe whole heartedly is The Law.

Look at God speaking to Judas here (In Zech 11:13) and look whos replying back to God.

And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

So I see the Lord directing His steps and the one with the money doing as He is told. I can't this right now but I'll get this. But Judas repented of what He did. He felt remorse and He went to the preists and under the law He was suppose to Die for killing innocent blood when He confessed what He did in betraying innocent blood. There are stipulations in the law for him in this. They said to him, "see to it yourself" or in otherwords kill yourself sort of thing. So I'm still testing these things out. But it would conclude God indeed is merciful if the stipulation for Judas was found.

[ March 25, 2002, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

HankD,

A freind of mine has pointed out to me (though still testing it with no conclusions yet) that the lies seen in this picture are the lies given to His prophets to speak. If you look at what God says is a lie its anythiing spoken that does not come to pass, so you could well imagine what the prophets went through when they were truly speaking of Jesus Christ who is now (through the "coming to pass") The Truth. The Spirit of Truth could not come into the world to all of us unless Christ fulfilled every jot and title was fulfilled, and these lies (as God would consider them "until" fulfilled) manifested themselves as "Truth" the day of the cross as in Him Christ Christ now consumes the serpents into Himself as the Rod of Aron cast down BECAME A SERPENT in Exodus 7:10

And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a Serpent.

For they cast down every man his rod, and they became ((serpents))): but Aaron's ROD swallowed up their rods.

So in seeing these consumed into Christ makes sense since He is "The Truth" see? Because all (if seen as lies) are made Truth in Christ- who IS the Truth.

I like this one my freind showed me

This is FIGURATIVE USE Isaiah 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the HAIL shall sweep away the refuge of LIES, and the WATERS shall overflow the HIDING PLACE.

Look in scripture as to where "The hail is" both concrete terms used for "hail" as the are found at the cross. In Rev these are "cold stones" seen as Cold to Christ, but they are also the ones saying "All hail" at the foot of the Cross (these are the ones mocking Him.

The "Hail" SWEEPS AWAY the refuge of lies because on the cross (Gods purpose) manifests Himself as "True" in Christ who is "Truth" see what I'm getting at?

God says to Job,

"Hast thou seen the TREASURES OF THE HAIL"?

Most overlook this because "hail" just looks like ice balls lol! But you see the "Hail" stated to Mary before the birth of Christ and at the foot of the Cross and after Christ has arisen He says to them "All Hail" and they fell at His feet to worship Him.

The verses you shared had the same affect on me as you because I'm thinking God can't be trusted but in seeing it this way I understand in Christ (Truth) as to why its in there now.

I'm running late to run out the door. Keep your open heart and mind! God blesses you!

In Him Kim

 

Star, I asked very precise questions and didn't receive an answer at all. Can you answer the questions? Do I need to rephrase them?

A serpent was raised on the pole for this reason: serpents were killing the people. They had no remedy for it. They were hopeless and could do nothing about their present situation. So God commanded the solution and Moses erected it. The serpent was raised becuase it was killing them. In a sense, the serpent was being judged and shown to be powerless. This is because when someone who had been bitten looked by faith at God's salvation, he was saved (physical).

This is the same with its parallel in the N.T. Sin is that which kills and leaves man hopeless and without remedy. So Christ, the Lamb of God, did not sin but took upon Himself the sin of the world so that those who look in faith at God's salvation would be saved (eternal).

There is no connection with Satan. You are implying that Satan and Jesus have some sort of tie. Unless you say otherwise, I am left to believe that you think they are either the same person or equal.

As one adult to another, please answer.

 

Preach,

I cannot answer your question the way you want me to because I have answered it the way it needs to be answered as I AM SEEKING A BETTER UNDERSTANDING having NOT YET DRAWN A CONCLUSION but am looking at the things presented with an honest and open heart.

Am I not correct the the entire church cannot determine what the binding of Satan was and the purpose for loosing Him and the "thousand years" etc. Your blessed if you keep the words of the book I take everything very seriously and have noted some obvious similarities and am allowed to seek "understanding" am I not? We are to seek understanding are we not?

I need only answer to God Himself, who sees my heart and my desire to understand His word. No conclusions drawn at this time.

You then answer me.

Why does God put a "lying Spirit" in the mouth of His prophets, if no lie can come from the truth what did that mean to you?

If God be True (and I believe He is) Why did he decieve His prophet Jermiah. Can God decieve? Yes it is written He can.

Christ as seen in the picture of Lucifer were both as "one" who "covers" every precious stone adorn Lucifer, yet Christ speaks of every stone being cast down. NOW Christ IS SINLESS TO ME so I'm not attributing Sin to Christ in any way is that clear? BUT He just as Lucifer (Day star) were perfect in everyway UNTIL SIN was found in Him. Christ BECAME SIN the bible says. So I'm seeing something pictured here as in God authority CAST DOWN (Rod of Aron) BECOMING A SERPENT. The Serpent is a "liar" am I correct? and Christ Himself is "The Truth" but the Serpent in the picture of Arons Rod cast down CONSUMES ALL THE OTHER LITTLE SERPENTS INTO HIMSELF SEE?

So I'm looking at all lies being swallowed up in this picture into the person of Christ establishing Gods word as it True from the "begining" and seeing the true begining as the Cross of Jesus Christ.

So what I'm seeing is a Kingdom based on unfulfilled prophesies (seen as lies to God concerning prophets) be CAST DOWN and BECOMING TRUTH in the person of Jesus Christ (who IS the Truth) establishing an everlasting Kingdom in us who believe. To me it makes alot of sense. Thus the first covenant (not a lasting Kingdom which was in Pauls day fading away becoming obsolete) Now ushers in an "Eternal Kingdom" through Our Lord Jesus Christ. Whereby we walk in His light by His Spirit, entering into His rest prepared for us at the foundation of the World (The Cross) where the True foundation was laid. Now the Body of Christ (we as precious stones) are knitted together in Love built up into Him, a "spiritual house" and Royal preisthood unto our God.

So in my careful statement I'm not attributing to God evilness but creativeness in the picture still seeing Jesus as The sinless lamb of God but who took our Judgement and descended into Hell and was raised to life again.

Another thing, we are to AGREE WITH OUR ADVERSARY thats funny if Hes not our freind in some kind of a way. There was another verse which states don't speak a word of accusation against him but merely say, "Lord rebuke you". There is much more i this picture then I'm sharing I'm looking at the basics here.

Please don't ask me again to make a statement on how I see something that I have already said I'm still looking at and having come to any solid conclusion. If I do not know I'm not going to "guess" to appease you.

In Him Kim

[ March 26, 2002, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Star, it appears as though you have a concordance and every time you see a word, you link it as equal with every other word and assume they are all used in the same way. Am I correct?

Also, let me say this up front: God will never lead you into falsehood. Jesus said the Spirit would lead you into all truth. You will never come to the conclusion that Jesus and Satan are the same or deny the trinity or any of these other bogus ideas of an "open heart" by truly listening to God. God's Word was written in a particular order. If He wanted you to link all words together and assume they are meaning the same thing, He would have had Scripture in the form of a systematic theology book instead of what it is.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:19 that factions (heresies) would come from within the (professing) church. It would happen so that true believers are made manifest. In other words, true believers don't get caught up in heresy. If you believe that Jesus and Satan are the same, you are a heretic and not a believer and Jesus has not washed your sin away. Another Jesus is another God altogether (2 John 9).

Also Star, you would have us believe that Catholics are part of the body of Christ along with everyone else that names the name of Christ. What are you going to do with the nearly limitless passages on salvation apart from works and also separation from false teachers and those who do not endure sound doctrine? It seems as though if you are really saved, you ignore the plain teachings in Scripture for some altered reality where the "deeper things" of Scripture are found.

 

Preach you do not listen to anything I say anyhow so its rather stupid to reply. I'm looking at "pictures" they are "representatives" Gods Rod turned turned into a "serpent" and Jesus BECAME SIN. I'm looking at the "connection" still seeing Christ as "holy" so your not hearing me, and haven't answered my questions either.

Not all catholics are alike they are "people" and not all have the same measure of faith or knowledge (this is biblical) am I correct? We live up to the light we have. Now... Some people (biblical) see one day as Holy another man sees everyday alike we are not to judge anothers man faith in Christ. I do not, there is no reason to. If I'm not to judge the "homosexual" I'm not to judge those who see things differently. Some believe the letter of the word, some also believe in the Spirit of revelation and of wisdom to know God better. Both are present according to the measure God measures to one. Some think abstaining from foods is what its all about,Paul says we are no better if we abstain from foods and no better eating. BUT SOME feel this way. If they abstain the do so to the Lord do not judge them they are His. Not everyone eats meat only milk and this also is biblical. So our perception is weak or strong through training our spiritual senses but no one is to be judged who is weak in their faith and no one is to put a stumbling stone in front of another. We are to ACCEPT SOMEONE weak in the faith and BUILD THEM UP NOT TEAR THEM DOWN because this is the true authority Christ gives us.

They believe in Christ our lord and god can make anyone stand am I correct?

It seems as though if you are really saved, you ignore the plain teachings in Scripture for some altered reality where the "deeper things" of Scripture are found.

Scriptures dare to differ with you my freind...

1Corinth2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

We are to COMPARE SPIRITUAL WORDS EXPRESSING SPIRITUAL TRUTHS

1Corinth 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Christ IS THE TRUTH, I'm lead to Him in my study as well as the work He accomplished on the cross.

If no lie comes from the Truth why did God send a lying spirit (One spirit) in the mouths of all the prophets making them one false prophet and where are these seen as in the book of Revelation?

God decieved Jeremiah, is God capable and for what purpose from what you "understand" and can make sense of why does this happen?

Share the beauty of your wisdom with me

in Him Kim

 

Star, I will briefly state this: believers are the ones to whom the mind of Christ has been given to understand the deeper things. Unbelievers are the natural ones that cannot understand the things of the Spirit. A believer isn't a natural person in the biblical sense. Also, my objection was that you have forsaken the plain teachings of Scripture and sought out the deeper. You will NOT understand the deeper unless you understand the basic. In other words, meat is only for those who don't choke on the milk. Does this make sense? I will answer your dilemna with the deception part later. It is quite simple really.

 

To the SERPENT GOD SAYS

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and THOU SHALT BRUISE HIS HEEL.

Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up [his] heel against me.

John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the SCRIPTURE MIGHT BE FULFILLED, He that eateth bread with me HATH LIFTED UP HIS HEEL against me.

My question is... Who's "heel" was up to be "bruised" and which part did God say to the Serpent would be bruised as it pertained to HIM performing in scripture?

Because RIGHT THERE THE TWO SEEDS ARE PRESENT in the picture and Jesus sees this to be scripture needing to be "fulfilled"

Judas raised his heel and the Serpent was to "bruise" it. YET the opposite is also true, if this be the case then Judas had to be the one strike him in the head (prophesy)

Lets look then

Luke 22:64 And when they had BLINDFOLDED HIM, they STRUCK HIM on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, WHO IS IT THAT SMOTE THEE?

Judas "under the law" struck Him (The Rock) as Moses struck the Rock

Exodus 12:7 And they shall TAKE OF THE BLOOD, and STRIKE IT on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Psalm 55:18 But [it was] thou, a MAN MINE EQUAL, my GUIDE, and mine acquaintance.

He also prepared the way before the Lord to the Cross, binding the testimony (Christ) as the "waters" (seen as people in Rev) are the levites, "lifting up the Ark" of God Christ.

Given power to rule with Him for one hour in bringing to pass together the words of God in Christ through their hands. The hour that came was the Cross.

Thats how I'm beging to see it and it points to Jesus and agrees with Gods word, planting me at the foot of the Cross which is the Wisdom and power of God.

I think its beautiful...

In Him Kim

 

preach its not my dilema,

I'm joyful in the Lord and am in full confidence in concerning what I feel led to look into to. You can consider me any way you want to its your perogative. It still makes you no less of a brother to me because we disagree, though I realize I will not be considered as a sister to you. I'm ok with that, I understand, no offense taken.

In Him Kim

P.S
While your digging through your "dictionary" to give you the definition of a particular word in "concrete form", I'm looking to see how God choses to define them in other pictures so that I might compare "spiritual words that express spiritual truths".

But you think they are "concrete" (literal words) defined by dictionary alone... that leaves you not knowing what God is talking about in any "word" study. Because they are spiritual words you see as define as concrete you miss it.

When God asks Job if Hes seen the Treasures of the Hail or snow he not asking you to look at it under a microscope but to look at where they may be in scripture and see how they are used in other places which speaks of a cetain event that event is the Cross of Christ to THIS God has spoken and has brought to pass (Word became flesh).

Hast thou seen the treasures of the "hail"?



[ March 26, 2002, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

You are mistaken not knowing the Scripture. Your primary passage is where you go wrong. The rest of your theory then is just sloppy theology.

The seed of the serpent (unbelievers) would strike against the seed of the woman (Christ). The heel of Christ was bruised at the cross. The head of the serpent was judged (crushed) at the cross where his (satan) power was destroyed. The Scripture says that Christ came to destroy the works of darkness. Satan himself is the head of those works. Satan hates Christ. He does not ever willingly cooperate.

This is the universal interpretation of Christians. Your new doctrine is exactly what Paul meant in 1 Cor. 11:19. You have been rebuked I don't know how many times. You only manipulate the Scripture to your own destruction.

 

The seed of the serpent (unbelievers) would strike against the seed of the woman (Christ). The heel of Christ was bruised at the cross. The head of the serpent was judged (crushed) at the cross where his (satan) power was destroyed. The Scripture says that Christ came to destroy the works of darkness. Satan himself is the head of those works. Satan hates Christ. He does not ever willingly cooperate.

Yes... The SEED of the Serpent (unbelievers) UNDER THE LAW strike the SEED OF THE WOMAN (Christ).

The "heel lifted up" was Judas's it says so in scripture (as I have shown) and someone STRUCK CHRIST ON THE HEAD... What we have is not too hard to explain seeing the Serpent in the right light.

First off those he said were blind and in darkness were those under the Law= brood of vipers am I correct?

Christ says we have ((ONE)) FATHER

Then He says to the pharisees YE are of your father the Devil.

This is prophesy...

Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID UNTO THEM, YE ARE NOT MY PEOPLE, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] THE SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.

It was said to THEM where Christ stated it because the Word bears witness of The Word.

A Murderer from the begining is not a negative word against God because HIS MOTIVE WAS LOVE.

If Christ is the True Begining then RIGHT THERE IN THAT BEGINING (At the Cross) God was that Murderer because HIS SWORD IS DRAWN AGAINST HIS SON to fulfill His words and purposes in Christ. This is the "Father against Son".

Mathew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but A SWORD. (ref to Zech below)

Double edged prophesy Mary Typing the Church is cut to the heart (cirmcision by the hand of God the Sword of the Spirit)

Luke 2:35 (Yea, a SWORD shall pierce through thy own SOUL also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be REVEALED. (thoughts of MANY HEARTS meaning those who are the reality of her similitude)

Father against Son
Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Wait a second... I thought only the Wolf scatters the sheep? Wolf and lamb will lie down together because their purpose is the same.

Who does God consider a harlot or unfaithful wife? Anyone reaching "outside" the covenant of marriage" but in the spiritual aspect of Christ He is seen reaching outside the covenant to the gentiles. These things are already present in the Old testament in speaking such things.

Now you might take "offense" because the words you see aren't the heart of what I see IN THEM. I see a great Heavenly Father who loved us so much he sent His Son Jesus Christ to Die for our sins and got paid the debt we owed. But I also see a God who speaks in spiritual words expressing spiritual truths who uses the abased things of this life showing himself in these things. But Christ is the Rock of "offense", if you get beyond the words into the "heart" of it you see great wisdom and beauty in the work of Christ as it was hidden in Gods word. Christ came as a theif in the night when He robbed God of sacrifices and offerings. I think it was awesome to set the stage like this. Father against Son. Jesus taking away the sacrifices and offerings even David (in his heart) said He didn't desire to bring. Saying God YOU DO NOT DELIGHT in sacrifices and offerings OTHERWISE I WOULD BRING THEM. David always listened to His heart, he didn't make God so complicated. He listened there.

Preach you need to see things from the heart and get past words because the words are justifying Christ and commending the Work of God not cursing it as you would think.

In Him Kim

[ March 26, 2002, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Preach where does it say Satan hates Christ?

Second Satan entered Judas and Christ sent Him to fulfill scripture. "Go what thou art about to do do quickly". Seems He's obeying Christ here. In Zech its the Lord seen as talking to Judas or Satan you pick.

Zech 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

Now the seed produced under the law (of the flesh) hateth that born of the Spirit (through faith).

Self righteousness (under law) (((hates))) Gods righteousness which is by faith (born of Spirit)

In Him Kim

 

Hey Preach Wheres the "lying Sprits" theory you promised? I'm waiting for the simplicity of that one you promised

In Him Kim

Does anyone know why the holy spirit came with "cloven tongues"?? I'm at a loss here I thought only serpents had cloven togues, can anyone help me gain a better understanding here?

Heres the verse

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them CLOVEN TONGUES like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Thanks in advance

In Him Kim

[ March 27, 2002, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Wow! What can I say? You have Mary as a type of the Church (nowhere in Scripture). You have Satan willingly working with the Father. You have the Son stealing sacrifices from the Father. As I said before, you are just getting a bunch of words together, putting them in a furnace, and molding them all into one neat little theology.

1. Mary did not type the Church. Show me that in Scripture.

2. Satan opposes Christ and the Father. Did not Jesus say that hell was created for the devil and his angels? Is not death and hell seen as being thrown into the lake of fire? Is not Satan seen as being thrown into the lake of fire where his torment will continue forever and ever. Do you see that? TORMENT? What foolishness to put the Father and Christ on the same team as Satan. This is nothing short of Luciferianism? What are you, some kind of Mason? What kind of heretic are you to say otherwise? The serpent was judged in the garden for the wickedness he committed against God.

Let us ask Paul. Paul, what do you think of Satan? "And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen." Thank you Paul. God and satan appear to be on friendly terms, right?

3. Your quote of David is grossly (surprise) out of context. The point was to bring a sacrifice while hiding sin in your heart is unacceptable before God. Instead, a broken heart (one of repentance) is a must for proper relationship and worship.

4. God communicates to us in a language that we understand. You have a self-made god that means something different than what he said. How insane is that? That is the language of the schrizophrenic(sp?).

5. Your bizarre tree in the garden theory is totally pointless. There existed no sin in the garden before Adam and Eve disobeyed God. What righteousness did either of them need to attain to? Please answer. Also, where do you find Paul saying the tree is a likeness of the Law?

6. The Scripture says that satan entered Judas to do those things. It was a satanic thing to bring about the crucifiction of Christ. Read Acts 2 where Peter said that they took Christ by WICKED hands and crucified Him.

7. In Matthew 10:34, Christ brought the sword, not the Father. The context is a sword that divides even families. If you searched Scripture for the parallel, it would be found in Heb.4:12. Yes, that is right, it is the sword of truth. Helloooooo!

8. The Lord is the one who struck Christ. He accomplished this however by using WICKED people, including satan. This is called SOVEREIGNTY. For another example that confused you, look at the census of Israel taken by David.

9. Christ did not reach outside the covenant. Christ is the mediator of the NEW COVENANT. The old covenant was between Jehovah and the Jews. The New Covenant is between Christ and all who are saved since the institution of it. Read all of Scripture in context; it helps.

10. I reject your admonition to walk blindly. Your heart is deceitful and desperately wicked above all things. Do you really want to trust your heart? Many sincere people believe their own heart right to hell. If you don't repent, the same will be the same for you.

11. This is just basic stuff by the way. It doesn't take much to shred your conspiracy theories.

 

I just noticed where you flat out denied the Trinity. What are you going to do with what Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice and they do not follow after another."? The trinity is a fundamental of the faith. Deny that and deny Christ. BTW, are you a mormon?