" Biblicists " . Do You Agree With This ?

DEUTURONOMY 7:6, "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God, the Lord your God has CHOSEN you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." Israel was elect.


MATTHEW 24: 22, "Unless those days be cut short, no life would have been saved. , But for the sake of the ELECT, THE CHOSEN, those days shall be cut short." Who are the elect? The believers. Verse 24, "False Christs, false prophets will arise, will show great signs and wonders so as to mislead if possible even the ELECT, THE CHOSEN, the believers." It is a term for believers, for Christians verse
31, "When He sends forth His angels with a great trumpet at the Second Coming, they will gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

LUKE 18:7 says, "Now shall not God bring about justice for HIS ELECT who cry to Him day and night and will He delay long over them?"

ROMANS 8:33 "Who shall bring a charge against GOD'S ELECT?"

COLOSSIANS 3:12, "And so as those who have been ELECT OF GOD, CHOSEN OF GOD, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion," and so forth. You've been CHOSEN OF GOD to be holy and beloved. He determined to set His love on you and me for no reason of ours at all, but strictly of His own free choice. The elect of God, that's who we are.

2 TIMOTHY 2:10, "For this reason, Paul says, I endure all things in my ministry for the sake of those who are CHOSEN that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus." I am doing my evangelistic ministry to bring the gospel to the ELECT...the chosen. Titus, when Paul writes that letter he couldn't say it anymore straight-forward. "Paul, a bond servant of God and an Apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those CHOSEN OF GOD."

2 JOHN, describes the church as the chosen lady, the elect lady, 2 John 1; 2 John 13, the children of your CHOSEN sister greet you. Two churches, both elect.

PETER says, "You are a CHOSEN race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession." You are a chosen race. You are a Christian because you are chosen to be one by God.

ACTS 15:14, "Simeon, or Peter, has related how...this is the Council of Jerusalem...how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a PEOPLE FOR HIS NAME." God's whole plan is to take out a people, to choose a people.

MATTHEW chapter 20 You have a parable here, the Kingdom of Heaven, like a land owner, went out in the morning to hire labors for his vineyard. He agreed with the laborers for a denarius, he sent them into his vineyard. He went out the third hour, saw others standing idle in the marketplace, went through the process, hired them....hired them...hired them...hired them. [/b]Selected them[/b], the whole parable all the way down to the bottom, he picked out who he wanted and he rewarded them with eternal life, that's the essence of the parable. Very simple. He selected them. Called them into his service. Sent them out to serve. Rewarded them fairly, faithfully, generously. That is a picture of election.

JOHN 15, Jesus said it to His disciples, "You did not choose Me but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give it you." You didn't choose Me, I chose you.

JOHN 17:9, He says of Christians, praying to the Father does our Lord, "I ask on their behalf," this is the high priestly prayer of Christ, "I do not ask on behalf of the world but of those whom Thou hast given Me." The Father chose us and gave us to Christ as a love gift, for they are Thine.

ACTS chapter 13: 48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, that is the gospel message, they began rejoicing and glorifying the Word of the Lord and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." The chosen believed. Those appointed to eternal life believed.

ROMANS 9:14. God is talking about choosing. He says, "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated." God made His choice. Verse 14, "What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God is there? May it never be." Me gennetos, in the Greek, no, no, no. It's...it's not injustice, for He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion," which is to say I will do precisely what I want to do. Verse 16, look at this, "So then it, salvation, does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs but on God who has mercy." Sovereign mercy. And somebody in verse 19 says, "Well then how can He find fault, For who will resist his will?

ROMANS 11: 5, "In the same way then as in the case of the prophet Elijah and seven thousand men who didn't bow the knee to Baal, in the same way then there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's choice." God's choice.

1 CORINTHIANS 1: 9, "God is faithful through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son." Your salvation was a direct work of God. He called you into fellowship with His Son.

EPHESIANS 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him, before the foundation of the world." When did it happen? When were we chosen? Before we were born. Before anybody was born. Before there was a world we were chosen.

1 THESSALONIANS 1:4. "We give thanks to God always for all of you, making mention of you in our prayer, I look at your life and I see...in verse 3...your work of faith, your labor of love, your steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father, knowing, brethren, beloved by God His choice of you."

2 THESSALONIANS 2 :13, "We should always give thanks to God for you, we shouldn't thank you, we should thank God, "Brethren, beloved by the Lord." Isn't that good? "Because God has chosen you from the beginning."

2 TIMOTHY 1:9, "God who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to His own purpose and gace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.”

2 TIMOTHY 2:10 , Paul says, "In my ministry I endure all things," "For the sake of those whose name has been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life of the Lamb who has been slain."

REVELATION 17: 8, "And those who dwell on the earth will wonder whose name has not been written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world." And again we are told in a backhanded way that Christians are those whose names have been written in the Book of Life from beginning, from eternity, from the foundation of the world.

REVELATION 17:14, "These will wage war against the Lamb, that is the host of the Antichrist, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful." We're the chosen.

REVELATION 20, Final judgment, Great White Throne, "If anyone's name was not found written in the Book of Life he was...what?...thrown in the lake of fire." When were names put in the book? From before the foundation of the earth.

LUKE 4, Jesus in this marvelous synagogue event in Nazareth, opened the book of the prophet Isaiah, stood up in the synagogue, opened the book, read it. This is what He read, verse 18, and here was a prophecy that He was fulfilling right out of Isaiah 61. "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor, He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free those who are downtrodden to proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.


ISAIAH 55:8 and 9, the Scripture says of God, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord, for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts." We are in no position as fallen creatures to determine whether what God does is just, right or fair.

ROMANS 11:33 the Apostle writes, "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God, how unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways for who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has become His counselor?" You've stepped out of bounds when you say that God does anything that isn't fair.

 

Heh! Heh! Heh!
Ed

 

Bob, when I'm witnessing to a lost person, my particular theology and the debating atmosphere of this blog is the furthest thing from my mind, and I hope that is the attitude of everyone here. I don't worry about whether someone is elect or not when I give them the gospel. I pray for them to receive Christ. If God will permit me to be a fool in boasting, I wil tell you that I go soul winning every week and I could easily produce a list of names of those I've "won" like some soul winners do. When I found out that my brother was dying, I drove two thousand miles, praying and crying all the way that God would save him, which he wonderfully did by His Grace. During his funeral some time later, two other family members made professions of faith and were baptized recently. So I will not accept any accusation (I'm not sayig that YOU are making such an accusation) that because I am passionate about the truth of God's Sovereignty, I am in any way cold towards evangelism.

But I do get tired of this "why aren't we witnessing instead of debating" distraction. I'm on this blog because in addition to loving souls, I love the truth, and if I haven't led someone to the truth, what have I done for them?

Also, I noticed that the title of the forum includes the words THEOLOGY and DEBATE. I would say that anyone that is turned off by theological debate should not be on this forum.?

 

Heh! Heh! Heh!
Ed </font>[/QUOTE]Don't usually do this but found my own chuckle was the last post so I can tack on this. A page ago, since I keep seeing requests for chapter and verse, Calvibaptist, quoting webdog, wrote these words and entered this partial post:

"If the penalty has been paid for everyone, why does anyone end up in hell? Notice, you said the penalty was paid, not the penalty was potentially paid if they respond in faith.

quote: Playing word games, are we? Divine grace is necessary for salvation, not faith or any good deed, as God has given every man ability to have faith. "Good deed" needs more clarification.

Is faith part of the gift of God in Eph. 2:8? You might want to consult a Greek grammar before you answer."

I'll toss in an opening opinion to the last question, first. I agree as to consulting, but for those of us like me, to whom "Greek is 'all Greek' to me!", I'd suggest consulting the BIble in your/my native language will suffice for a start. Now -
A few questions and commnets as I commute along early this morning on the Canadian/American Railroad. I anxiously await the station, as I'm hungry and I need to get something to eat. I'm sure many here are familiar with the Canadian/American? At least I think that is the name. This is a well known line from what I've been told. Seems to run around the clock, and has more stops than most. At least I'm guessing that is the name of the RR, because it has a giant C/A emblazoned on the locomotive.

A quick question and partial answer as I open this "can of worms" before breakfast. How many times does the Bible use the phrase(s) "repent of (your/our) sin(s), or repent from (your/our) sin(s)? Before everybody runs to grab their concordance, I'll give everyone )being I'm in such a congenial mood, ) a partial answer, to save some time. The partial answer is 110, which is contained in the complete answer! I'll give the complete answer at the end of the post.

Let's assume "the penalty was paid", i.e. the debt was covered. Where does Scripture say that this "debt" 'being covered' is the 'problem', in the first place? [I submit that the Lord Jesus Christ
adequately "covered the debt" with his precious blood on the cross, and that the "three 'nailings'" we find do the job, with 'my' first (Ps. 22:16; Zech. 12:10) and third (Col.2:14) here, in view. (As an aside, interestingly enough, the NT gives few of the gory details of the actual crucifixion of our Lord, mostly saying, "...they crucify Him,", assuming that the details were so well known, and horrendous already, that merely the word "crucify" is 'sufficient'.)]

The word 'sufficient' just used, leads to the question I'm asking. Is that (the 'covering' of the debt) "enough", or is it only, in this context, "sufficient". I submit that the cross is beyond "sufficient", to every possible degree, but it is less than "enough".

Jesus said, "Except a man be born anew, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." The cross does not 'guarantee' the new birth.

Sin's penalty paid, and the debt covered, i.e. "wiped clean", does not equal "New Birth". (Jo. 3:3) In other words, the cross does not 'guarantee' the new birth, yet it is the 'guarantee' OF the new birth.

I agree with the comments I see on the BB about word games. I would also offer that many are not deliberately twisting Scripture, with any malice intended. Nevertheless, our question is and should be: "What does Scripture say?" Not what do I think it may be saying. I will use three examples, that will "fit" both the dominant theological systems that are 'flaunted' on a daily basis on this board.

One is the use of the word and associated phrase - '"perseverance" of the saints'. Nice ring to it! Just ain't there in Scripture. We find "perseverance" exactly one time (KJV, RV, ASV) in Eph. 6:18, to wit -

"18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints-" (NKJV)

There is a difference as wide as an ocean between "perseverance OF the saints" and "perseverance...FOR the saints.

Second, we hear the word and associated phrase tossed around of "sovereign" and "sovereignty of God", usually as regards what God can or cannot do (should be what God does or does not do, but why would we quibble about such niceties as language?) as regards "His sovereignty". How many times do we find either of these words in Scripture? A nice round figure of exactly zero.

But I do recall something about His being "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS" (Rev. 19:16); And something about 'neither are My thoughts and ways your ways and thoughts' (Is. 55: 8-9); and "His ways (are) past finding out". (Ro. 11:33) Could we be attempting to impose our own concepts on God?

Well, the station approaches so I've little time left for this. as I said, I need to eat, so the station is a welcome sight, here. I did promise a complete answer to the question about repentance.

" How many times does the Bible say "repent of (your/our) sin(s), or repent from (your/our) sin(s)? And the "partial answer is 110."
Most of you are probably smarter, than I am, so should have little trouble figuring this one out. The complete answer is ZERO!

Bob Dudley writes:

Sounds like my wife has been talking to your wife!

Rippon writes:

"philosent" "Philosent??" Rippon - Cash that one in!
Ed

 

I've got a word for sale - "Sentosophy". It's cheaper and it'll go farther. $9.95 while they last. Sorry, Rip, but it's just business.

 

Ed

 

Bob, good timely reminder. I am passionate in what I believe, as is everyone else around here! How passionate are we in pleading with men to be reconciled to Christ? </font>[/QUOTE]If God has already predetermined who is His, why plead with anyone? What an exercise in futility! You cannot prevent them from being His if He has determined that and you cannot make them His if He does not want them.

And Bob, we do NOT know how to keep them from running straight to hell if Calvinism is correct, for they are predestined not to be saved and therefore there is nothing that can prevent them from their hell-bound journey.

In other words, an evangelic Calvinist is oxymoron.

 

Ro 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

You, and others, have said God gives the Faith to believe, but I wonder, do you know what the faith was that abraham demonstrated in God??

A short explanation, in the right direction, will suffice.

 

Barry and I were asked to write a study on Abraham for a pastor in Australia several years ago. In that study I think we answered your question:
http://www.setterfield.org/Abraham.htm

Here is the relevant quote:
His possible understanding of the Gospel: There is an interesting note in verse 5 of Genesis 15. The Lord takes Abram outside and tells him to look up at the stars. Abram is told to "count" or "tell" them if he can. The word translated "count" in the NIV and "tell" in the KJV is "caphar" or "sapar", and means not only "count" or "tell," but to recount, to enumerate, or declare. There may be a deeper meaning here. God tells Abram, "so shall your offspring (or seed) be." This is most often taken simply to mean that Abram will be the father of peoples too numerous to count in line with God’s additional promise in Genesis 22:17. This prophecy has certainly been fulfilled. However, the word "offspring" or "seed" here in Genesis 15:5 is not plural (as that interpretation requires) but singular. This point is emphasised by the apostle Paul in Galatians 3:16 where he stated that the word “seed” in this passage is in fact singular and refers specifically to Messiah.

In Galatians 3:8, Paul makes the further enlightening comment that God proclaimed the Gospel in advance to Abram at this time. Paul then went on to use the quote "all nations will be blessed through you," which is considered part of the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament. Is it possible, therefore, that there was actually something in Abram’s “listing” of the stars themselves which “recounted” that Gospel promise? This possibility is explored elsewhere, including a fascinating article on the web at http://www.ldolphin.org/zodiac/. If that is the case, then there is an even greater meaning to Genesis 15:6 that "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited to him as righteousness." This would agree exactly with Paul’s words in Romans 4:20-25 where it is written that righteousness is credited to those who believe God and the Gospel about Messiah.

 

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

God had promise to bless abraham through Isaac, then told Abrahm to "Kill" (Sacrifice) Isaac, nothing was revealed to Abraham about Isaac being "Resurrected", Abraham figured that out on his own and acted accordingly, knowing Isaac would have to be alive for God's promise to be fulfilled.

Ro 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.


This was not faith God gave to Abraham, but Abraham believing God would keep his promise "in spite of Isaac's death".

Like Abraham, We also have to believe that in spite of our death, God will keep his promise to "Resurrect" us.

"FAITH" is "US" believing "God's WORD" to save/resurrect,

Faith that is demonstrated on nothing more that the "HOPE" and "Belief" that God will keep, HIS WORD.

Folks who say God give us the faith we need to be saved, show an "extreme" ignorance of scripture and especally the "plan of salvation".

 

Since God had promised Abraham that his seed would include Christ, or the Messiah, it is not unreasonable to assume that Abraham thought that Isaac was the Messiah. That is why he told his servants to wait while they worshiped then then THEY would return.

 

Interesting idea.

Ed

 

I'm not even going to touch this one. You biblicists need to start policing your own.

 

I'm not even going to touch this one. You biblicists need to start policing your own. </font>[/QUOTE]The Jews don't expect the Messiah to be "GOd in the flesh", but only a "MAN" much like Moses/Elijah.

 

JD, Think about it. When Sarah couldn't have a child, they tried another way -- through Hagar. But then Sarah conceived in her old age and this was considered a miracle. Isaac was certainly a picture of the Child of the Promise -- the Promise given to Eve. Why else would Abraham have told his servants to wait until WE return?

 

It could be that Abraham knew through his seed (Isaac) the Messiah would be born, meaning he had an understanding that Isaac would bear children. He most likely believed Isaac would be sacrificed, and then rasied up at some point to fulfill the promise God gave him.

 

Through FAITH, Abraham didn't have any "Burial plans" for Isaac.

And I don't have any for my soul either, only the dust is "predestined" to return to dust. (Flesh)

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

Ummm, Me4Him, all the Apostles died....