Our God Reigns

You don't have to look very far. We see it almost every day on these forums. That's why I think your post is relevant and important. Unfortunately, posts like yours never seem to make a difference - at least a visible difference here. Maybe what you post here will sink in over a period of years for at least one person. I hope so.

I like your posts, anyway, so I hope you don't stop.

 

OK, call me simple minded - my kids do all the time. But what ARE you trying to prove with this thread?

 

And, if I read right, why would deception be a Christian way to do it?

 

Where do you find deception?

 

Can I ask a question that may be somewhat related to this....Is God's Will always done here on earth?

 

That's funny! I would never connect legalism with Calvinism, myself. Take Spurgeon, for example. Have you ever read about his antics regarding the fact that he smoked cigars? They're pretty funny. Some stories are about how he used to poke holes in legalistic thinking.

One story (and I'll have to tell this from memory, so I may get some details wrong), relates how he went somewhere where there were several church members smoking. He said something like, "Is this something Christians should be doing?" They all put out their pipes, etc. Then Spurgeon lit up a cigar. They looked at him with amazement, and he said, "I simply asked you if it was something you think you should be doing. Apparently you think you shouldn't be doing it, because you stopped."

If anything, I find that free willers tend more toward legalism - at least those who believe you can lose your salvation. Theirs is a soteriology that boils down to "You can't earn your salvation by works, but you have to keep it by works." Grace only lasts for the moment of salvation, after which you have to work to keep the free gift.

In other words (and I wish I came up with this analogy but I didn't), you can have this brand new Mercedes Benz for free. All you have to do to keep it is send me $800 per month.

 

This is a true story: When I was at Dallas Seminary, taking a Church History class from John Hannah, we were talking about Soren Kierkegaard. A student raised his hand and asked, "What do you do with someone who really and truly got saved through the false teaching of someone like Keirkegaard?"

Dr. Hannah replied, "God can even use an ass to speak His Word. But we shouldn't all try to be that ass."

His point - we should try to get our theology as accurate as possible, so that when we share the gospel, we are sure we are sharing the truth.

 

Bob, I'm not sure that numbers of people who come forward and pray a prayer and fill out a card equals genuine conversions. We surely don't see changed lives after all those millions of people pray the prayer in one of his crusades.

It is the same problem the SBC has right now. They have over 6 million baptized members on the rolls, but only 2 million on average in attendance on Sunday. That last number includes visitors and children not on membership rolls. How come their is such an attrition rate? Is God really blessing the SBC, or are we just making up numbers to look big?

 

You've only just scratched the surface. I've seen SBC pastors go to incredible lengths to increase membership at the cost of Biblical integrity. So you not only have inflated numbers, but what do those numbers really represent?

 

</font>[/QUOTE]That's what we like about you, Bob...a man who might not say much, but says it so very well.

 

While nothing is ever done without His permission, His perfect will is rarely, if ever, done on earth right now.

 

That'd be me.

 

I'm having a hard time reconciling these two concepts. Nothing is done without God's permission. Yet His perfect will is rarely, if ever, done on earth.

To complicate matters, not even a sparrow falls to the ground apart from His will. And the hairs on our head are numbered. That doesn't mean God knows how many hairs we have on our head, but they are numbered according to His will.

So He is in absolute control over the life of a sparrow and the number of hairs on our heads, but he's turned over our eternal destiny to our free will, which has been corrupted by the fall.

All I can say is, "wow".

 

I smell sarcasm in the air.

 

Oh, and Helen is right.

 

Are you suggesting that God has a perfect will which is not done and an imperfect will which He allows to happen?

Or are you saying that Romans 12:2 is suggesting there are three wills - a good will, an acceptable will, and a perfect will? I have heard that suggested before, but I don't buy it.

 

</font>[/QUOTE]Bob, are you just trying to run up your number of posts?

 

I think Calvinists use terms/concepts differently. They don't seem to make a distinction between God's will and His allowing things like Satan to continue to deceive, etc.

Jesus said in Matthew 23.37 and Luke 13.34 that he would have wanted to gather those in Jerusalem to him like a hen gathers her chicks but the people were unwilling. Jesus was willing, but they were not. Does this mean Jesus is not in control? No, it does not.