RE: was this a "real" Baptist church?

What in the world is a "spiritually abusive" church? That's a new one on me.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...Should churches who are not affiliated with a Baptist denomination be allowed to use the Baptist name...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Free2know, there are thousands and thousands of Baptist churches that are not affiliated with with any convention, association, or fellowship. They have every right to the name Baptist, because in Baptist theology there is no ecclesiastical authority higher than the local church. Some of these unaffiliated churches are isolationists, as the one with which you had experience; and some are involved in extensive interchurch fellowship. Among these unaffiliated Baptist churches there are, in my opinion, some of the very best Baptists and some of the very worst!

 

I think the more pertinent question ought to be "Should the ABC be allowed to use the name Baptist seeing as it no longer holds to the Baptist distinctives?"

 

Who we Are

Paula

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
I think the more pertinent question ought to be "Should the ABC be allowed to use the name Baptist seeing as it no longer holds to the Baptist distinctives?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have no knowledge of the ABC. Could you please provide some reasons for this statement?

Thanks!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by free2know:
I attended a spiritually abusive "Baptist" church for 10 years<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please, explain to me how you define "spiritually abusive"?

One of the things about Independent Fundamental Baptist churches is that although they have the same "name", they can be as different as red and green. But, if you want a good answer, its best to explain things a little more fully.

Thanks,
Dave

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by free2know:
If you want more details, please tell me. I can qoute actual twisted scriptures if you wish (that is scriptures they misinterpreted for their benefit!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I am very interested in hearing more.

In case you are wondering, I am an Independent Fundamental Baptist. However, it seems (so far) the only thing my church and your old church have in common is the title.

Looking forward to hearing more.

Dave

 

If you can go from an independent Baptist church to an American Baptist church (or even a Southern Baptist church) and feel more comfortable then it is probably because you have become comfortable with sin and false doctrine.

 

Free2know, if you are so spiritually superior to those "nefarious confrol freak(s)" at your former church, why did you stay there for 10 years? Don't you have to accept some responsibility for being a supportive part of that abuse?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>One example of the old churches behavior is unincorporation. They don't want the Government in their business so they unincorporated in the state and can no longer deposit funds in a bank,(no EIN Number) they want cash donations only... this should raise some pretty big red flags, but the leader managed to convince the people to go along with this....scary don't you think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Free2know, I am aware that some independent Baptist churches have gone to extremes on the "unregistered" and "unincorporated" ideas - some even going so far as to say that incorporation causes a church to "lose its candlestick". But I would like to balance this with a few thoughts. I don't what part of the country you are in, but in this area it is not all that unusual for churches not to be "registered" in any kind of way with the government. I have been a member of a church that had no bank account. This is not particularly "scary" if the person caring for the funds is accountable to the church. It is, in fact, the churches money. One problem I have seen in some churches, not all of them ibf, is that a dictatorial pastor (or perhaps the treasurer) is not held accountable to the church. But further, at least here, a church does not have to be incorporated to get a bank account. Some banks will try to require it, but if handled carefully, it can be done to the satisfaction of the church and the bank. So I just want to caution that it should be the nature of financial accountability required by the church, rather than the method used, that raises red flags.

 

Another thread on this topic has been started in this same forum, called Spiritual Abuse.

For those who have participated in this thread and have been demeaning and derogatory, your words are completely intolerable. You are either judging in ignorance (and an apology is in order) OR you could be yourself involved in such a church and feel the need to be defensive. I have NEVER said anything like this on the Baptist Board, period, but this time it is absolutely warranted, even needed. I am not being ugly. I am stating a FACT. This is a significant and literal issue.

Attacking free2know because she is not in an IFB church now is completely aside from the point. It was not until recently (16 years AFTER leaving the abusive variety of IFB myself) that I learned that all IFB churches are not like the ones I experienced. Those were the only kind I knew and you couldn't have paid me enough money to walk back inside one wearing that label. The hurt I experienced was REAL and EXCRUTIATING, AND THE ENVIRONMENT WAS PROFOUNDLY UNGODLY AND AGAINST SCRIPTURE. There is absolutely NO defense for those type of churches.

I am not in an IFB church now. I am in a church in another Baptist brand, but I don't agree with some of that "brand's" distinctives and therefore do not adopt the label myself. What I have found is one church within the brand, and one pastor, who have a clue about truly following God. There are NO PERFECT DENOMINATIONS, BAPTIST OR OTHERWISE. When it comes down to it, each church has to stand or fall on their own practices, even IFB ones, I have discovered.

A couple weeks ago I went with some precious friends to their IFB church in another state while I was visiting. It was a delightful surprise. At the same time, I had to work to hold down the panic sometimes with some things that were similar on the surface to what I had experienced in the past. That's exactly the type of reaction anyone who has experienced abuse will have to events or circumstances that bear similarities to events or circumstances that occurred in the context of the abuse. It is that very reason why free2know and MANY OTHER people I know, may never darken the door of an IFB church again (and some, unfortunately, will not darken the door of ANY church), regardless of whether it is one of the bad ones. It's hard to worship in freedom and joy when there are reminders of a very painful past.

-- Danette

 

OOPS! It was just brought to my attention that previously on the board mention was made that I knew Dr. Bob Griffin back in my college days, which are in this thread referred to in an extremely negative light. Just to clarify, yes it was the same college but NO Dr. Griffin was not a part of the garbage. In fact, if asked I believe he will verify my assessment of the place. His wife was once a great encouragement to me when I was trying to deal with severe, demonic, daily, nightmares I was having because of the environment. Dr. Griffin was there near the end of my stay and didn't stay all that long. I left before him so I don't know exactly what his reason for leaving was, but I do know he is VERY MUCH not a fan of that system.
-- Danette

 

Free2know you said you are from Pennsylvania. I am interested in knowing what specific church you are talking about and who is the pastor of that church. I am originally from Pa. and know quite of few pastors out there. Would you be willing to divulge this info?