Fundamentalism, Gnosticism, and Quaker "inner light"

Ben W, does the Bible have to explicitly say everything God does or doesn't do?

You are arguing from silence. There are plenty of people who embrace the idea that once the Spirit completed the N.T., he was done with revelation (not the book).

 

Siegfried
I am not saying that I endorse the idea that God literally tells someone "Thou shalt marry Peggy Sue." It is more of someone asking God "May I marry Peggy Sue,” in which God gives a peace that is clearly saying that it is O.K. It is here that saying, "God told me to marry Peggy Sue." In fact if someone makes that statement then I ask him or her to explain what he or she mean. Sometimes it is these "hair splitting" that will determine the quality of someone’s theology. Split the hairs, but do not go militant on them. Some people think that we must believe identically. It does not happen in this world. However, never compromise of the clear and foundational doctrines.

The point that I was trying to make with the quoted was that the Holy Spirit guidance goes beyond just making a passage more understandable but includes the application. "Things to come" would not mean new revelation to us. Revelation 22:18-19 closed that to us. In the application to us, I would say that the Holy Spirit is giving us understanding on how things are working out to the fulfillment of Biblical prophesy (as in the nation of Israel now exists where it suppose to be for the end times).

 

Preach the Word, You need to realise that the Holy Spirit speaking to somebody is not giving that person fresh revelation. The Bible is specifically clear that it was finished being written in Rev 22:18-19, The Holy Spirit is speaking to people and giving them "Words of Knowledge" as mentioned in 1Cor 12:8. Phillip recieved a word to go and speak to somebody about Jesus Christ much the same as those who know the voice of the Holy Spirit recieve the same types of words today. God is Consistent with His Word, He works in many different ways, but none that go against His word, for that reason everything God does is contained in his word.

Seigfried, Yes I agree with you that the operation of Spiritual gifts did seem to quieten down in the early church, there is not alot of mention of Spiritual Gifts after the third century. The Christadelphian church teach that Spiritual Gifts are not for today, using as a basis for there theory 1Cor 13:8, however if we go down to verse 10 we can see that these things shall pass away when that which is perfect has come. This was written 50-70 years after the perfect one had come, prior to the gift of tounges being given. It is telling us that when Jesus Christ returns, These thing will pass away, but only then. Until that day Spiritual Gifts are for the church to use as God wills.

In 1905 when the Pentecostal Revival hit Azuza Street, We saw the reintroduction of Gods spiritual gifts. The lukewarm spiritualness of people began to get hot. There is much that is wrong with the modern capatilist based church, But there are also others going after the early church model as expoused in the bible. We have to be goverened by the bible. Gods word is true, many stray from it. Particularly when they follow the modern day doctrines of mammon. Spiritual Gifts are simply yet another way God uses us.

 

Ben,Has God spoke to you? What did he say? How did you know it was God? Were you standing,sitting? How did you *know*,without a shadow of a doubt,it was God speaking? Can you give evidence to support this?
What is it a voice you could audibly hear? What did His voice sound like?

This is very interesting to me.

 

Called to ministry. That is a good question. If I may use my own example. I wanted architecture, but my parents chose ministry. Albeit, they expected the Anglican vicarage and not Baptist.

In short, I studied both; theology and architecture. Whilst in Bible College, I received numerous invites to preach the Word, and not one invite to design a building. It would appear that God was opening doors of opportunity and closing others. Was this a call? Was this an inner light? Call it what you may, but one goes readily through open doors to succeed. There is a sense where the natural man has followed a direction in the human world, and there is a sense where it seems evident that God is leading in that direction.

The call to ministry was made by the church and not by me. They determined that I was called and hence invited other like churches to sit in council and determine whether or not I was equipped to be a minister. Please remember, it was my personal desire to be an architect, but there was an overwhelming inner demand to be a preacher.

I firmly believe that we possess an inner spirit to sense the presence of God in our lives. This is not to say that at any moment I am about to spout out some special revelation that no other possesses, but for me, I have peace about taking a certain direction in my life.

Lord knows, there are also times when we find out that we have taken a wrong turn as well. One church thought for sure I was called to be their pastor, and so did I. Eight months later we were both parting company. We both agreed that we were wrong. It was a very miserable 8 months, and I even thought about leaving the ministry, and did for about 6 months. Situations changed and so did I. It was not because I could not do something else. I was still a licenced architect, but God had plans for me and my life and He made it clear by opportunity and open doors.

Is this mysticism? Call it what you will. I call it the leading of the Holy Spirit and it comes from within the soul of man.

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim

 

Siegfried:

I think you are quite correct. The scriptures give us the basis for what we believe. It does not give me directions on how to get to Sheffield from London. For this, I must use a map.

God has given us a mind, and we ought to use this mind to make certain determinations. If I wish to pass an examination, I best study, and study earnestly. This is common sense.

Notwithstanding, and I believe this is scriptural, there is in our spirit a sense of the presence of God in our lives. I preach because I sense that calling to preach His word. It is also a command in scripture to do so.

As to being a minister, certainly one's equipping is tantamount in making this decision. Yet, some have entered upon ministry without formal training, and been very effictive. One example is A.W. Tozer. We ought not to confuse this with "no training whatever". Tozer became a man of the book, and this was reflected in how he taught.

There is the old saying, "Don't be so heavenly minded that you are of no earthly good." There is a balance in spirituality, and this includes our earthly passage.

I think in what I said earlier, I was being quite rational about decisions, but not ignoring that sense of spiritual awareness in one's decisions.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Siegfried, Fresh Revelation, might be something like "God has told me polygamy is o.k". A revelation that is in conflict with the Bibles teaching.

A Revelation is also different to a Word of Prophecy. A Revelation relates to Doctrinal matters, wheras a Word of Prophecy relates to a physical matter.

Various groups within Charasmatic churches like for example the Kansas city Prophets, supported by the Vineyard church are recorded as having made several false prophecies. Resultingly by scripture they are to be disregarded Jeramiah 23:16-22.

There are modern day Prophets. David Wilkerson is an example. (interestingly he has removed his association with the AOG) It is documented that in 1987 He prophesied the stock market crash which happened in October that year. He also foretold the gulf war, four years prior to it happening. How can he do this? He is a student of the Word and the emphasis in his church in New York is always on the Word.

A word of Knowledge - Strongs no 1108 gnosis, gno'-sis, means the act of knowing, relating to 1097 ginosko which has many applications in greek, one being to "percieve". There was a case of a pastor I knew who was at an airport and recieved a word, to get on a different plane to another destination than where he was going. Not knowing why, but knowing the voice of the Holy Spirit he went. Arriving at the airport, he made his way into the foyer. He then recieved a second word, this time to approach a chap seated in the waiting area, and witness to him. Which He did. As it happened the chap was led to Jesus Christ that very hour. Why God did not quicken somebody else who knows, But God moves in mysterious ways that is for sure.

 

I generally agree with Siegfried and Jim about someone saying "God told me to do this," but it does seem that scripture dictates we can count on direct guidance from God on all decisions we have to make, even down to our very steps.

It would be a throwing out of the baby with the bathwater to not believe God through the Holy Spirit does not guide our steps, and I think that would be an unbiblical stand. As far as historic Baptists go regarding God's guidance, read the words to the hymn, "He Leadeth Me." It was written by J.H. Gilmore, who was a baptist preacher and professor.

Here are some verses regarding God's guidance:

Psalms:37:23: The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

Psalms:48:14: For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death.

Proverb:3:4-5 again.

Proverb:16:9: A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

Isa:30:21: And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

I don't think God talks aloud to people as it is not warranted in scripture, but it would be disingenuine for me to disregard all the times in life, looking back, where God obviously had me by the hand and was leading me.

I think of this especially when I preach, when sometimes I am able to sit back and listen to what I am saying, kind of detatched and an observer.

I realize this example is subjective, but I believe a strong case could be made both historically and biblically for guidance of every step we make, if we will ask God for it.

 

Philippians 4:4-7
Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice. 5Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. 6Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

I guess this will be a little clearer. In a nut shall. The peace of God follows our prayers, which means it is they way God shows us His answers. But it is needful notice that prayer is preceded by praising God and living a godly life. God is not going to answer our prayers if we regard iniquity in our heart.

There are many things that are reserved for the twelve disciples only, however, since the promise of the Holy Spirit applies to us, then the blessings of the Holy Spirit apply to us also. Although what He does through us is different then what He did through them.

(Note: I may not be able to respond as quickly for the next few days. I will answer any questions that you have as soon as possible though.)

 

Siegfried, much of today's Evangelical culture is rife with Gnosticism. You may be interested to read a secular book on the issue - Harold Bloom's 'The American Religion.' There are a couple of chapters dealing specifically with the SBC.

 

Having peace because you always rejoice and bring supplication to God is not the same as saying you have a peace about something and therefore should follow through on your course of action. The latter is what Siegfried is talking about, I think.

 

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