Numerology

Ken, you are really way off base. Jesus is the Son of God and knew what His mission was before He left heaven and took upon Himself the form of man. Therefore, Jesus would have no reason to ask "what would I do if I was afflicted?" This is just preposterous and equates Him with being a mortal man!

Again, you are really way out there. Jesus is the Creator of the Universe and knew what He would go through before He became flesh. He knew what suffering He would go through and what was required for Him to be the Sacrifice for Sin. He is the Alpha and Omega....He knows the beginning from the end. So this is baloney.

To compare a conversation God had with Satan as if it were Jesus thinking, is nothing more than blasphemy! Besides being nuts.

No, Ken, You are the one who likes word games. God doesn't play games. God doesn't need to amuse Himself.

If you are truly my brother in Christ, I admonish you to be careful!

 

Eaglelives,

Why then did Christ ask then, "Father let this cup pass from me, yet not what I will but what you will"? Paul said Christ learned obedience through what He suffered, how does that fit into your theology? He was tempted as we are. He shared in our humanity and if he didn't suffer along with us as a man then He cannot be the merciful High preist the scriptures declare Him to be, as one who was made like us sharing in our weakness. Our weakness toward God, our "doubts" in times of trouble, rebuke, in the face of judgement from others, in mockings etc. these things Christ shared in, even those who betrayed him from His table, or those who couldn't grasp what he was saying etc. He became weak that we might be made strong. He "SUFFERED", a MAN OF SORROWS. That which was written in the Psalms were written of Him Christ said. Job is a "similitude" of that in every way. Paul said, He humbled Himself not considering Equality with God a thing too be grasp. Your theology needs to see both sides of Christ.

He DECLARES the END from the BEGINING. The BEGINING is THE CROSS. God declared through Christ THE END OF SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS as They offered up The lamb of God... Gods perfect sacrifice.

In The Begining (The Cross) Was The Word (Christ) and The Word (Christ) was with God and the Word (Christ) WAS GOD. He was the EXACT representation of the Father.

As for God hiding His word. He did. It is the Glory of God to CONCEAL a MATTER and the Glory of KINGS to SEARCH IT OUT. Kingdom of preists? Entrusted with the perfect word of God.

God indeed plays word games that we might "search". Why do you think everyones running around on the boards asking "what does this mean"? Take a look around, I'm sure you've had those moments "as NOT few as they are" questioning as your heart inquired of the Lord about something.

A thousand years are as yesterday when it has past or a watch in the night?

Huh? (try figuring THAT ONE out outside of the Cross of Christ)

But the clues are in scripture. THAT DAY IS THE DAY OF THE CROSS. THAT DAY is Daniels "Evening obligation" (Christs obligation to drink the cup). That day is the WATCH IN THE NIGHT. They ALL find their placement IN CHRIST who IS The Power of God. Knowing the scriptures without the power of God is not knowing them as Jesus put it. All things find their place IN CHRIST who IS THE TRUTH. Properly place in Christ they begin to make sense. The Cross of Christ IS the Wisdom of God. So when you see WISDOM which has HEWN ITS SEVEN PILLARS you begin to "connect" these things IN CHRIST. The Numbers begin to make Sense seen in the "great things God has done for us IN CHRIST"= Scriptures testify of ME. See?

No wonder the Bereans were of MORE NOBLE CHARACTER

About the plagues.... Heres a secret...

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I WILL BE THY PLAGUES; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

O Death (This mortal body) GOD WILL BE THY PLAGUES...(you may need to reread that, do it seven times)

God is "plagues"? For GREAT is thy Plagues... Sure are He's our plagues. Thats scripture. But see you said, "God knows the end from the begining" it says He declares... Oops you added or took away from the word... Will you invite those plagues if you knew God is your plagues?

In Him Kim

I edited and added a couple to this post here...

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. (Like Job who is a similitude of Christ)

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

[ April 08, 2002, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Ken,
I've got a couple of Pink Floyd albums I'd like deciphered too. Can you help me out here?

 

<<God indeed plays word games that we might "search". >>

God does not play word games. It is because we do not have full knowledge in our human frailty and see through a glass darkly that we cannot comprehend the full meaning of all Scriptures. But they are not games.

Christ in His human side prayed for the cup to pass from Him, but that doesn't mean He didn't know the end from the beginning. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end. He and the Father are One. He is also the Word. In the beginning was the Word. What Ken is attempting to do in his theology is make Jesus Christ a mortal man and to interchange Righteous Jesus Christ with Satan, the Father of Lies.

Not all prophecy was fulfilled at the Cross. To preach otherwise is heresy and plays to those who have "itching ears." Creating confusion.

 

Eaglelives,

Can I have that verse...."God knows the end from the begining" in that exact wording.... I'm curious is all because I find God says things perfectly for a reason. I hear that often.

I find that God DECLARED "THE END" FROM THE BEGINING. Find "The end" and WHERE He "Declared it".... You'll find the "begining" -The Cross of Christ

Christ IS THAT

Alpha and Omega BEGINING AND THE END. As Christ said the, "The things concerning me have an end. and IN HIM (Who is the "begining") we become a new creation. On the Cross He put an END to sacrifices and offerings. On the Cross He said, "It is finished". He makes all things new... The new creation.

Can I ask you why you take away from the word denying Christs "humanity". Because He shared in our nature, That the cries in the psalms are those which find its fulfillment in Him. He was a Son who "learned" obedience through what He suffered... Thats scripture. He was both the Son of man, Son of God. He shared in our weaknesses.Thats scripture, He was certainly a man of Sorrows, I'm blessed by such a High Priest knowing He became like us.

In Him Kim

[ April 09, 2002, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

<<If you desire to hold that God came down as the SON,>>

So, you don't believe in the Trinity--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Then why are we having this conversation?

<<If you desire to hold that God came down as the SON, Prove it Scripturally.>>

Jesus is the Word.

So if in the Beginning was the Word and the Word was Jesus, He could not be as you stated...

<<Jesus at 1,000 years old is REBORN at Bethlehem.>> Besides, Jesus wasn't "reborn."

You said: "All prophecies are actually fulfilled the day of the cross. "

And you said: "I started out in a Baptist Church, Learned what is called Sound Doctine. Believed it. "

Jesus Christ, God, became human:

So, if you deny the trinity and Holiness of Jesus Christ and state that He is the physical son of David instead, you are in error.

And if you learned Baptist sound doctrine as you state, then you know what you are doing now and this conversation is over.

The angels will gather His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven....this has not happened yet, or I would be gone and not posting here. But at any rate, the conversation is over.

 

Eaglelives.... what are you talking about? Whose denying the Father, Son or holy Spirit as you are accusing?

The Word (Christ) BECAME Flesh. Christ (Truth) manifested in the person of Christ (He IS the Truth of all that is written) Christ IS the LIGHT of the knowledge of God, the EXACT representation of the Father. He was "THE WORD" Bread of heaven. The Life of God made manifest in Christ. The Alpha the Omega, the Morning Star. The Vine, the Lamb. The Son. The Sacrifice. The power of God. The Ressurection. The Serpented lifted up. The Second Adam, the one who cries better words then that of Abel. In the VOLUME OF THE BOOK it is written OF ME= Scriptures testify of ME (Christ) The Sum of Gods word is Truth (SUMMED UP IN CHRIST) the "record of God" bares witness to His Son Jesus Christ. We believe in "God's record" concerning His Son and believe in the Testimony of Christ and abide in His word.

In the BEGINING (what begining?) THE CROSS = thats where it all began (The true begining) In the Begining was THE WORD= Christ and the Word (Christ) was with God and the Word WAS GOD.

God declares THE END ( of Sacrifices and offerings) from THE BEGINING (The CROSS) and makes ALL THINGS NEW, New Creation in Christ. Fulfilling the requirements of the new Covenant through the blood of Christ where God would pour His Spirit upon all flesh (Holy Spirit) which we have recieved.

How do you accuse anyone here of denying anything? I thought it was wrong to accuse anyone falsely. If you need the test of faith then let me be the First to say I confess "Jesus Christ is Lord", so if your "wondering" about such denials as seen in your accusations wonder no more. You failed to understand at all whats being said and what you don't understand you accuse. No ones denying anything here your accusing and pronouncing Judgement without asking by "presuming" something that is not true, thats wrong.

In Him Kim

Ofcourse you won't be back after throwing such an accusation at someone that has no truth in it. You "ask" not "accuse" someone if then afterwards you want to accuse thats fine go ahead if thats what Christ in you leads you to do.

[ April 09, 2002, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Eaglelives, please consider the following:

Yet, just a few verses previous, God says something slightly different:

Psalm 89:29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

Not "child," but "children"...not "his," but "their"....

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

It doesn't void God's swearing in His holiness unto David; it proves He keeps His word. A lowly carpenter from Galilee was recognized as the Savior.

Eagle, please consider that I've shown discrepancies with Ken's viewpoint of Job. If you disagree with the discrepancies that I pointed out, then by all means show me my error. But if you agree with the discrepancies I pointed out, then you must understand that Ken is fixated on his personal viewpoint, and will not be swayed.

 

Lets look in other areas of scripture seeing what is "referenced" here along with these verses.

Psalm 89:30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

Heres what happens when you obey the "top verse"

(Neh. 10:29)They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and ENTERED INTO A CURSE, and INTO AN OATH,TO WALK IN GOD'S LAW, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the COMMANDMENTS of the LORD our Lord, and his JUDGEMENTS and his STATUTES;

Heres what God says about these very things...

Ezek 20:25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] NOT GOOD, and judgments whereby they should NOT LIVE;

This is what God will do

Psalm 89:32 Then will I visit THEIR transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

But to who was visited?

Isaiah 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Because of Christ

Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, [so] far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

In Whom we have Faith

Psalm 89:33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from HIM, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

Thats "beautiful" Thanks be to God in Christ!

In Him Kim

 

Seems I've heard this redefining of words somewhere else...Got it, the word was "is" and the Simlitude interpreter was Bill Clinton. If only Bill Clinton were a member here, we could clear this whole Bible meaning thing cleared up in about 2 puffs of a cigar.

 

Hey Don:

Maybe I didn't make my previous post very clear, but I was quoting Ken. Look here...This is KEN's QUOTE (not mine):

KEN quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not know any verses which support God coming down and taking the form of God the Son, Please supply some if you know of any. Enough to void God's swearing in His Holiness unto David.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's what started my tirade...!!! What convolution of the Scriptures!

If Ken believes God did not come down and take the form of God the Son but to "raise up David's child," (AS KEN SAYS IN ANOTHER POST), that is denying the Trinity, IMHO, and this is the stuff cults arise from.

At the very least, it is not sound doctrine and creates confusion with all of this bunk. God was very straightforward in His Word, and does not play word games, as Ken states. God is not the Author of confusion.

Some Scripture can and does hold several meanings and some Scripture can be applied in a personal sense, but Scripture will NOT contradict Scripture.....unless human beings (I won't mention any names) take it out of context and try to construe the meaning to fit his/her own personal agenda or "revelation!" What lunacy. What schizophrenia!

I agree with you, Don, 100%!!!

Don, you are preaching to the choir! Again, I agree with you 100%. We are on the same team.


[ April 10, 2002, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: EagleLives911 ]

 

Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Actually it looks like God is the one confusing their language here... But Here is a verse stating "the Lord came down".

In Him Kim

 

Confound (archaic) sense means:

FRUSTRATE, THWART, FOIL, BAFFLE, BALK mean to check or defeat another's plan or block achievement of a goal. FRUSTRATE implies making vain or ineffectual all efforts however vigorous or persistent.

To frustrate, thwart, defeat Nimrod's goals and Tower of Babel (idolatrous worship).

 

Eaglelives...

Wheres the problem?

lol!

In Him Kim

 

Genesis 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

No, as the light of seven days....

Why did I come back to this thread?....