Discipline

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larry:


You suggested that there was no support for physical punishment, in the NT.
I posted Heb 12:6, so yes I am suggesting just that. Perhaps reading the verse in a little more contexts will help.

Hebrews 12:5-8

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'll agree to disagree about these scriptures, because there's no way this is physical.
If corporal punishment worked for you - great. I never tried or needed it.

Also, what Dr. Bob said about yelling is right on. Talk about parental control loss!

 

I've had to do a lot of thinking when we talk about discipline. When the rod was mentioned in the bible I feel like that rod was entended for guidance, like the shepards used the rod to guide the sheep when they would go astray. I spanked my children when they were small, esp my son, he was so stubborn, but now that I'm older I think I would have used a different approach. I wasn't living as close to the Lord as I should have and didn't take the time to talk to my son when he had those NO fits on me. My dad could talk to me and I knew not to do the things I wasn't suppose to. This is just my views on sparing the rod, I view this as sparing the guidance.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Optional:



I'll agree to disagree about these scriptures, because there's no way this is physical.
If corporal punishment worked for you - great. I never tried or needed it.

Also, what Dr. Bob said about yelling is right on. Talk about parental control loss!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok, we can disagree on this.

Corporal punishment is only one tool that the Lord has placed in a parent’s toolbox. Children haven’t changed from the OT to the NT, so I consider it a valid technique.

I know that anything can de over done. We need wisdom from God to know what kind of punishment and how to apply it. A good talking to, a slap on the behind or even raising your voice can be effective if done in the rite way.

The main ingredient to raising Godly children is TIME! We need to spend time with God and time with our children.

When my little girl comes and gets me by the hand and says “c’mon da da wets pway”, most of the time I go play, the times I don’t I end up asking myself how many times I went to God the Father when He didn’t make time for me (never).

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Larry ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larry:



Ok, we can disagree on this.

Corporal punishment is only one tool that the Lord has placed in a parent’s toolbox. Children haven’t changed from the OT to the NT, so I consider it a valid technique.

I know that anything can de over done. We need wisdom from God to know what kind of punishment and how to apply it. A good talking to, a slap on the behind or even raising your voice can be effective if done in the rite way.

The main ingredient to raising Godly children is TIME! We need to spend time with God and time with our children.

When my little girl comes and gets me by the hand and says “c’mon da da wets pway”, most of the time I go play, the times I don’t I end up asking myself how many times I went to God the Father when He didn’t make time for me (never).

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Larry ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Larry - you hit the nail on the head.
Peace brother.

 

Frankly I am amazed at the lack of biblical basis for the comments on this thread. Larry and Dr. Bob seem to be the only voices speaking biblical principles, while most of the rest are talking modern psychobabel. Unfortunately it sounds like Dr. Spock and his philosophy has been adopted by Baptists.

While we did not always discipline our children (two married, two in college and one in high school) as we should, we tried to use the principles of the Word of God as outlined by Larry and Dr. Bob. God has blessed. Spanking was used for specific and repeated disobedience (Bible's principle of corporal discipline).

A little booklet we used, copied and passed on to others was a great help and blessing, entitled, "Why Daddy Loves to Come Home," which was written by a happy mother.

Friends, we need to be biblical rather than adopting the world's philosophy about discipline and child rearing.

 

Good reply Larry, made tears come to my eyes, could be cause thats my granddaughter that wanted da da to go play. Take time to play and enjoy what god has given you.

 

Sorry on my recent reply (God) should have been captialized I tryed to change it but was to late.

 

I have a hard time with those who say that they speak to their children to discipline them. I agree that words do go a long way in some cases, but God directly speaks about the use of the rod in scripture. Proverbs 13:24 speaks of him who spares the rod hating his son (and/or daughter). I know that none of you hate your children...but I think for their sake you should look at scripture a little closer. Also...someone mentioned that their child was "a good little boy." I like to think that I'm a good young man, and I'd love to think that all of my fellow men are good, but I know from scripture that "there is none good, no not one."

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LiveInHim18:
I have a hard time with those who say that they speak to their children to discipline them. I agree that words do go a long way in some cases, but God directly speaks about the use of the rod in scripture. Proverbs 13:24 speaks of him who spares the rod hating his son (and/or daughter). I know that none of you hate your children...but I think for their sake you should look at scripture a little closer. Also...someone mentioned that their child was "a good little boy." I like to think that I'm a good young man, and I'd love to think that all of my fellow men are good, but I know from scripture that "there is none good, no not one."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a problem using "proverbs" from ancient times as a disciplinary guide. Why just pick out one proverb?

Proverbs 10:13 In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding.

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Proverbs 14:3 In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them.

Proverbs 22:8 He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Proverbs 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 26:3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

We are under a new covenant. Why should I hold firmly to the old?
I am a representative here on earth of the Heavenly Father. There is no scriptural basis in the NT to physically deal with your child(ren).

 

“We are under a new covenant. Why should I hold firmly to the old?”

I’m not sure I see your point. Proverbs was written way after the old covenant (OT), it is included it the Hebrew writings AKA the “Old Testament” but it is not part of what Jesus redeemed us from.
For example Solomon says in the same book “a soft answer turns away wrath” that has nothing to do with the “Old Testament”, it still works. If I cut someone off on my way home today and he honks his horn and yells at me, I’m not going under the Law or holding to the OT, if I say “sorry please forgive me”, I’m using wisdom to defuse the situation. Solomon observed hundreds of universal principles just like this one (he was given wisdom) they were compiled in a book and called Proverbs.


“There is no scriptural basis in the NT to physically deal with your child(ren).”

As has been discussed on this thread that is up for debate. Anyway, I’m not going to die on this hill. I have an appointment with the Lord (Heb 9:27), If, I’m wrong at least He will know that I have studied his book and done what I could to obey his commandments, as I understood them.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As has been discussed on this thread that is up for debate. Anyway, I’m not going to die on this hill. I have an appointment with the Lord (Heb 9:27), If, I’m wrong at least He will know that I have studied his book and done what I could to obey his commandments, as I understood them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same for me. Proverbs aren't commandments.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kachana:
Children who are physically disciplined are more likely to assault siblings and other children, and display greater levels of antisocial behaviour than children who are not punished physically. When they are adults, spanked children show higher levels of depression and alcoholism, among other afflictions.

These are just some of the results of research programmes that clearly indicate the detrimental consequences for spanking, a book has just been published on the topic:

Beating the Devil Out of Them : Corporal Punishment in American Families and Its Effect on Children
by Murray A. Straus, Denise A. Donnelly<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, but this holds no weight for me...Murray A. Straus & Denise A. Donnelly DO NOT know more about how I should raise my children then the ONE who created them...Thank you very much...

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

Hello to all,

Today I spent my day listening to two preaching tapes on discipline by a preacher who raised three children that are all serving the Lord and who never rebelled. Can I repeat NEVER. They never listened to rock music, the girls never wore pants, they never did drugs, never kissed until married, they never ran away, the boy never wore jewelry or had long hair, and best of all, they always served the Lord in the church. All three are married and on staff at their father's church. I was in college with two of them and the son had just graduated when I was a freshman so I know this is true because not only does the father preach it from the pulpit, but I personally knew his kids. What did I learn from his tapes: Spank. He says that some people say that each child is different and you have to know each individual child. He says that each child is different, and at about age 6 each of his three kids all received about the same number of spankings. There is a whole set of tapes on the Home that can be ordered through the church that are the best teachings I have ever heard on discipline. As to the original question - what is discipline like in your home? Well, every time I say no, my child receives a swat on the hand or leg to reinforce the no. If he does not touch it and I say no and he obeys, he gets a hug and words of encouragement. Right now I would say he obeys the word "no" about 80% of the time and he no longer even tries to climb the stairs. He also has been taught to come when we call him - which he also does about 80% of the time. He also knows to stop crying after being spanked, to not wiggle when I change him, to go to sleep when we put him in bed, and to not throw fits. He is ten months old. We are not perfect, he is not perfect, but we believe that God promises that if we follow Biblical discipline that our children will turn out right.

Missionary wife in Mexico

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well, every time I say no, my child receives a swat on the hand or leg to reinforce the no. If he does not touch it and I say no and he obeys, he gets a hug and words of encouragement.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same way I trained my dogs. They're very obedient, also.
You swat a 10 month old? Shame on you.

I never hit my kids at any age and never had any of the problems your preacher had, either. My way worked with my kids and is working with my grandkids. Think I'll stick with it.

 

Optional,


This is just going around and around. I am glad that your kids turned out fine, it dose seem that “your way” worked on them. I know others that were not physically punished, that turned out fine and I know of others that turned out to be brats, and visa versa.

Some times, during a debate, we can unconsciously overstate our position. It’s easy to do and I wander if perhaps you have done that when you shamed the lady for swatting a 10-month-old? You don’t know how heard she swatted the child nor do you know how heard she hugs the child.

I wander if parents, who consistently served the Lord and administered, consistent punishment, based upon Bible convictions, raised anyone out there? I wasn’t but I’m trying to, so if your parents fit the bill, please post your comments.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larry:
Optional,


This is just going around and around. I am glad that your kids turned out fine, it dose seem that “your way” worked on them. I know others that were not physically punished, that turned out fine and I know of others that turned out to be brats, and visa versa.

Some times, during a debate, we can unconsciously overstate our position. It’s easy to do and I wander if perhaps you have done that when you shamed the lady for swatting a 10-month-old? You don’t know how heard she swatted the child nor do you know how heard she hugs the child.

I wander if parents, who consistently served the Lord and administered, consistent punishment, based upon Bible convictions, raised anyone out there? I wasn’t but I’m trying to, so if your parents fit the bill, please post your comments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Agreed Larry.
I'm not really trying to say my way is right. I'm trying to say "use the rod" approach isn't the only way. I would never interfere with how someone disciplines their child (unless abusve). I, too, know many people that used a belt or some other physical punishment who's kids turned out fine and vice-versa.
However, I would say something to someone who I saw swat a 10 month old - no matter how hard.
My .02

 

Missionary to Mexico,

I just wanted to say thank you for your encouraging words. It is ok to discipline a young child. I discipline mine at a early age too and believe me it pays off. If they directly know what you are telling them if they are six months old or six years old. The difficult thing is consistency.

By the way where can we get some of those tapes????

Jane.