KJB Defenders

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tim the Baptist:
what books would you recommend I read to help Liberate me from fundamentalism? please help me break the bonds of oldtime Religion, I have always believed the a.v. as the word of God, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fundamentalism and old time religion as you call it has always believed that the Word of God is found in any faithful translation of the original language texts. You do not need freedom from fundamentalism. You need to understand what fundamentalism is and what it has always taught. Fundamentalism has never believed that only the KJV was the Word of God in English. Fundamentalism has always believed that the KJV is the Word of God because it is a faithful translation.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tim the Baptist:
I never Realized that believing the a.v. as Gods word, Would cause such a Thunderation
of Disdain,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I also believe that the AV is the Word of God. But, unlike the KJVO, I do not equate its words to the very words that God inspired originally. The word 'Word' emphasizes God's communication of His will and character. KJVOnlyism is legalistically hung up on the 'words' of the KJV which are just the mechanism by which God's Word is expressed. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I am sorry that you have had a
bad experience in the reading and or study of
the a.v.,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I personally have never had anything that qualifies as a bad experience in reading or studying the KJV. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I also ask forgivness in respect to
my earlier offensive communication, sorry, I
would like to study on your point of view, so
to assimilate into the mainstream of religion
and come out of the dark ages, I need your
help, what version or versions should I use
in my daily readings?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How very Clintonesque of you!! You make choices then claim victimhood when someone illuminates your folly. Sorry to spoil your pity party but you are not the offended innocent; KJVOnlyism is an offense and a very real danger to true biblical fundamentalism.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> what books would you
recommend I read to help Liberate me from
fundamentalism? please help me break the bonds of oldtime Religion,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You cannot be liberated by something that does not hold you. KJVO is not fundamentalist . However, if you truly want to get the fundamentalist's perspective to this issue the James White's works on the issue would be a good start.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have always believed the a.v. as the word of God,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> and it is <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> if its not, then I need to change what I believe and Preach,Teach, so I to can be informed and Conformed to the Mainstream Baptist Thinking,
Help! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, KJVO is not a fundamental position and using an MV does not make someone liberal, moderate, or otherwise non-fundamental. In spite of your sarcasm, if you are preaching that the KJV is the Word of God, great. But, if you are teaching that it is the only Word of God in English then being more informed and being conformed to the historic, fundamental doctrine of the Bible is the "help" you need.

 

Thank ScottJ, I will begin with james White's work, and also begin with niv,nkjv
I will keep you posted on my progress on re-education also please don't post anymore
of these Their Scary looking.

 

Personally I believe James White's book to be a poor choice to start. I know James, and like him, but he paints with a much too broad brush, and his understanding of bible preservation is vastly different from mine. He seems to characterize all KJV defenders as being in the same camp as Ruckman, et.al.

A better choice would be "One Bible" from Central Baptist Press. I still have several disagreements with the content of the book, it is much better and more even handed than White's work.

 

Dr. Cassidy,
I really think James is more even handed than you paint him to be. In fact, at times I believe he goes out of his way to be fair. But he was writing against one specific plank of KJVonlyism, that being the plank represented by those who are Riplinger and Ruckman robots.

 

Tom, you and I understand that, but the average reading may not. James failed to make his target plain.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tim the Baptist:
Thank ScottJ, I will begin with james White's work, and also begin with niv,nkjv
I will keep you posted on my progress on re-education also please don't post anymore
of these Their Scary looking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like a plan... watch out for that NIV though. With all those homosexuals working on it, you might be infected.

In all seriousness, employing sarcasm here instead of points and rebuttals does nothing but demonstrate your position to be as void and empty as many of us believe it to be.

Out in the real, world it does more damage. Aggressive KJVOnlyism often causes Christians to fear all the faithful MV translations that might help them grow in Christ for fear of being labeled and accused. What do you think the judgment of God will be on leaders/preachers/teachers who instill fear in weak Christians which inhibits their spiritual growth?

This is more than just a live and let live situation. There may be several people under your personal influence who are not growing that would flourish if they could read the Bible with words and phrases that they easily comprehend. Forget your own strength or weakness for a moment, are you willing to stiffle someone's Christian growth for whom you are responsible? You claim to be a fundamentalist but would a true fundamentalist, whose mission in life is to be a tool for building the body of Christ, cling so tightly to a doctrine that cannot be proven from scripture that they hurt another Christian?

There are many opinions here. I am fairly conservative in that I only use and recommend formal equivalency translations. However, I will not fall into legalism when there is no clear scripture to back me up. I have seen the weakness in the pews that discouraging those who earnestly want to know Christ causes...I want no part of it.

 

I have a question. Not to get off the subject of this thread, but something's bugging me.

I quickly scanned all the links at the start of this thread, and found that all but two were adamantly anti-calvinist. This seems inconsistent. Because if God didn't give us a pure English Bible until 1611, and the KJV is the only pure Word of God; then didn't He withhold salvation from all English speaking people before 1611, hence 'electing' those living after 1611?

Just doesn't make sense. But then, not a lot of the extreme KJV-only argument does.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: TimothyW ]

 

Here is something to think about.
In my town, there is a church that I pass each morning on my way to work. It is obviously a KJVO church because of one of those portable marquees they have out front which for the longest time read: "Independent, Fundamental, King James Bible, and not ashamed of it." I thought to myself, Wow, a church with an attitude. In time, the sign changed to something about a singing, and then changed again to what it now says: "King James Bible, All the rest are just books"
Now I thought about this for a long time, and kept asking myself, Whom is this message addressed to? Is it to non-believers? If so, then I don' think it really matters to them, since they are most likely not reading ANY Bible, and if per chance they do pick up an NIV, couldn't the Holy Spirit use that to speak to them as well? And if the Holy Spirit does speak to them, what if this person remembers this sign and Satan whispers to them "Remember…it is only a book. Don't believe it"
Is the message directed to believers? If so, then the chances are pretty good that they are already set in which version they will use, and this sign is falling on deaf ears.
I think that in the grand scheme of things, maybe the sign should say something to the effect of " God loves you, and sent His Son to die for you" That is the gospel that people should be told.
Instead they are in essence saying "Come worship the KJV with us"

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TimothyW:

Just doesn't make sense. But then, not a lot of the extreme KJV-only argument does.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: TimothyW ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TimothyW:

Most KJVOs are Fundamentalist Baptists, and most Fundamentalist Baptists are anti-calvinist Revivalists.

You will find very little in the rabid KJVO movement which "makes sense".

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:
Most KJVOs are Fundamentalist Baptists, and most Fundamentalist Baptists are anti-calvinist Revivalists. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think being KJVO removes one from fundamentalism since fundamentalism by definition deals with holding to biblical doctrine. We fundamentalists wont' claim either of the two groups you listed. We separate from them.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I think being KJVO removes one from fundamentalism since fundamentalism by definition deals with holding to biblical doctrine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting take, and one I agree with. But why? I just started a new thread where we can hash this out.