Tribulation Salvation

Ken,I understand salvation. I believe it just like you in the church age,it is before and after the church age that we disagree.

 

PREACHTHEWORD,God just gave them to Moses to kill time I guess. Good night man I never realized people were so mixed up!

 

How will those folks in the Trib. get saved? Just like anyone else in the Old or New Testament--and just like you and me! By Grace through Faith! By repenting of one's sins and receiving Jesus as Savior and Lord. "For there is no other name given among men . . . whereby we must be saved."

 

They will get saved by holding out and holding on,by not taking the mark of the beast,by keeping the law,they are not saved like us.

 

Well, let's see. I will open up my King James Bible (the only one I use) to the second page. Uh, The Old Testament - Genesis through Malachi; The New Testament - Matthew through Revelation. I guess that about covers it, unless the King James translators were mistaken and got them divided up incorrectly.

[ July 29, 2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]

 

Receiving a mark on one's hand or on one's forehead does not automatically damn anyone, nor does the Bible say such a thing, of course. For all sins shall be forgiven unto men, and if it is a sin for a person to receive such a mark, then even that sin is forgivable.

The error in interpretation of the so-called "mark of the beast" is based on legalism, or in other words in the misunderstanding as to how it is one is saved.

No one is ever saved for keeping any written law, nor by any other physical action of self-righteousness or self-denial. The only way one is ever saved - from Genesis to Revelation - is through faith in the redemption through Jesus Christ, God's grace.

Trying to keep written laws for one's eternal justification does not change the heart of man, but is actually just the act of putting on one's own righteousness. But God does not honor an act, for God is not mocked. The only way for man to truly be good is not on the outside, through an outward effort of keeping written laws; but on the inside, through the natural birth of the Holy Spirit, in which man will then naturally fulfill the righteousness of the law, which is love.

I ask the legalists in here: Does God do good because there is a written law over him telling him to do good, or does God do good by nature, because he is good? Even so, those born of God do not do good by written law, but by nature, because they are good from the time they are born again of the same Spirit which makes God good.

If it is the written law that makes man good and righteous, then how is it that these following Gentiles were keeping the righteousness of the law, when they had never even had or seen the written law:

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by NATURE the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another." - Romans 2:14&15

The written law is not for the righteous, but for the unrighteous. For the righteous have the law written in their hearts, through the birth of the Holy Spirit, and they fulfill the righteousness of the law by nature, from within; not by written commandment from without.

God bless.

 

After the church age is eternity - there will be no one else being saved then. Salvation will have been completed at that point.

You do realize that to be saved other than by the grace of God through faith, that a person would have to never, ever sin in word, thought, or deed, by commission or omission, whether intentionally or unintentionally, right? Only Christ Jesus has done that and will ever do that.

(Acts 4:12 NKJV) "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

There is salvation only in Christ Jesus by His perfect work on behalf of His people regardless of what dispensational scheme man may devise.

Ken

 

So, bro. coley, you do think the King James Bible is wrong?? Every chapter of every one the gospels should have been in the Old Testament, right? As for me, I'll stick with the KJV and assume that you are misinterpreting Hebrews 9:14-17.

 

To be honest with you I am very perplexed about what you are referring to bro. coley. I agree with Bro. rjvaugn's statement,

The testament or covenant Christ established in Heb.9:14-17 is not future but is now. Do you believe in a third Testament or Covenant? Please explain if so.

 

Bro. Coley, if you will notice the title of that book is "Hebrews." I am sure you know that "Hebrews" are the people of the nation of Israel. If you will carefully read the passage you pointed out you will note that God makes the New Covenant with exactly the same people he made the Old Covenant with, that is, Israel. We are not people of the Covenant, either Old or New. The Covenants were made with Israel. It would seem your objection is over ruled.

 

Ken,you are wrong.People will be saved in the tribulation as well as in the millenium.But they will not get saved like you and I were saved.

 

KEVO, you are wrong.

Ken

 

Romans 5
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 3
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Are you saying Paul was mixed up?

 

bro. coley, I think you will find yourself on the horns of a dilemma (perhaps several). First, your "division" of the word of God puts Matthew chapters 1-26 (and similarly with Mark, Luke and John) back into the Old Testament, while the King James translators put them in the New Testament. Will you say that the King James Bible is wrong or that you have wrongly divided the word or truth? Second, even if I accept your application of Heb. 9:14-17, you cannot resolve the problem your "division" creates. If the New Testament begins with the death of Christ, when does it end? You end it and go back to the Old Testament in the future, making the death of Christ of none effect. Will you say that the death of Christ is of none effect, or that you have wrongly divided the word or truth?

Paul said we should rightly divide the word - not shred it to pieces! Your division puts you in serious and obvious disagreement with the King James Bible, not to mention what it says in Mark 1:1ff. Of course, I can't bring that into the discussion, since you have already relegated it to the Old Testament! But it should be obvious that if you can't harmonize Mark 1:1 (which the KJV translators put in the NEW TESTAMENT) with the KJV translation of Hebrews 9:14-17 (also in the New Testament), then you are not rightly dividing the word of truth!

 

You never answered my question: Just where do you get your ideas on this from? I don't recall anything in Revelatios to back up what you say.

God Bless...........Alex

PS: Your one/two lines are a repeat, not having any substance!

 

Um, I was thinking the same thing.

Funny thing about Romans 4 is that Paul refers to both Abraham (prelaw) and David (postlaw) as examples of those who are saved by faith apart from the law. Wow!

The law was brought in to bring condemnation and to demonstrate that man cannot keep the law. Try reading Romans 3:19. Israel is sort of a testcase for the rest of us that it can never be done. Now stop getting your interpretations from the Ruckman chop shop. People have always been saved one way. By grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

[ July 30, 2002, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: PreachtheWord ]

 

The only way anyone is ever saved - by grace through faith(Ephesians chapter 2).

(Eph 2:8-9 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, {9} not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ken</font>[/QUOTE]Quite right Ken, as the tribulation occurred in the first century and may crescendo again before Christ returns (any pretribulationists not consider Chinese, Indonesian and Sudanese believers in the church?), salvation has always been and always will be, by grace through faith.