So Calvinism is mentioned in the Bible...

Unstable!?!?! I resemble that remark.

 

Since you mentioned Charles Haddon Spurgeon in connection with this verse, Scott -

"I must turn the text to give you really what lies in it. God hears the cry
going up from his own elect, and it is written, “Shall not God avenge his
own elect, though he bear long with them?” That long forbearance of God
brings to his own people much of trouble, pain, sorrow, much of
amazement and soul distress. Brother, you must learn to look upon that as
salvation. I hear you say, “What mean you?” I mean this. The very fact that
you are made to groan and cry by reason of God’s longsuffering to guilty
men gives you sympathy with Christ, and union with Christ, who endured
such contradiction of sinners against himself. Reckon that in being brought
into harmony, sympathy, oneness with Christ, through enduring the result
of the divine longsuffering, you find salvation. It is salvation to a man to be
put side by side with Christ. If you have to bear the jests and gibes of the
ungodly — if God spares them, and permits them to persecute you, be glad
of it, and reckon it as salvation, for now you are made partaker of Christ’s
sufferings. What more salvation do you desire?
Remember, too, that when the ungodly persecute the righteous, they give
them the mark of salvation, for of old it was so. He that was born after the
flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirit. If you were never
reviled, if you were never slandered or traduced, who would know that
you are a Christian? But when, through the longsuffering of God with the
ungodly, you are made to suffer, account it to be a mark of your salvation.
“Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so
persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
Once more: reckon the longsuffering of God, when it permits the ungodly
to slander and injure you, as salvation, because it tends to your salvation by
driving you nearer to the Lord. It prevents your making your home in this
world. It forces you to be a stranger and a foreigner. It compels you to go
without the gate bearing Christ’s reproach, and so, in this way, that which
seemed so hard to bear brings salvation to you.
Wherefore, comfort one another, dear children of God. Be not over castdown
and troubled because of your Lord’s delaying his coming, for he will
yet help you, and you shall be delivered.
If the Lord has shown longsuffering to any of you, and yet you have never
repented or turned to him, do so to-night. “The harvest is past, the summer
is ended, and you are not saved.” But, oh, that you might be saved ere this
service ends! The leaves are falling from the trees thick and fast, and ere
you fall from the tree of this mortal life, think of your God, and turn to
him, and live. “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.”
May he snatch you from the burning! Amen, and amen." - from Charles Haddon Spurgeon's sermon entitled "GOD’S LONGSUFFERING: AN
APPEAL TO THE CONSCIENCE"

Considering the way Calvinists are reviled for teaching the truth of the Bible in this forum, I can definitely relate to this part of Spurgeon's sermon.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

[ November 06, 2002, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

Scott,
Just for the record, the term Arminian is an abused term. There are very few Arminians. In fact, I've only met one and that was years ago.

True Arminians believe that one can lose there salvation moment to moment. Most people who think that they are Arminian, after reading J. Arminius' 5 points usually will say, "I don't believe that".

Food for thought.....

 

Funny. We're often chided here for shying away from the term.

 

Scott,
I will post later when I have proper time to discuss the remonstrants and what J.A. believed.
Until then...

 

I have a question about Pelagianism...is that what the Assembly of God denomination believes? I once spoke to a person who went to one of those churches, and they told me that a person could lose their salvation. It didn't really make any sense to me and it seemed like a philosophical argument..Do you know anyhting about this?

 

I just did some checking on Pelagianism today, so it's fresh in my mind. I'm by no means an expert.

I believe that Pelagianism suggests that men are born more or less morally neutral, and they choose their destiny. Pelagianism rejects original sin of any kind, from what I understand. Sinless perfection is possible from birth, not just after salvation.

I don't know that Pelagianism was developed fully enough to address the possibility of losing salvation. Certainly others know more than I.

 

Now, if Peter had written:

Then we'd know he was talking about Calvinists!

Mark

 

Since there were some questions about Pelagianism, I'd just like to offer my "services" to answer any questions you all have regarding the topic. I'm fairly well acquainted with the Pelagian Controversy. So, please feel free to either send PMs or to start a thread, if you wish.

Rev. G