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Bad theology in the hymnal

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Siegfried, May 21, 2002.

  1. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew New Member

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    P.S. Just wanted to say that I wasn't meaning to start a debate about any of these things (on this thread, at least!) - just wanted to say why I didn't like those songs. ;)

    Your friend and brother,

    Bartholomew
     
  2. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    Excellent post and points! [​IMG]
     
  3. AITB

    AITB <img src="http://www.mildenhall.net/imagemsc/bb128

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    "Holy Bible, book divine, precious treasure, thou art mine..."

    I don't personally believe we should sing songs to the Bible! :eek:

    (Singing about it might be ok, but to it? :confused: )

    To be fair, I've never sung this hymn in church. But I have sung it more than once in a Bible study.
     
  4. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    WELL WHAT FUN IS THAT? LOL I realy wanted to ask your opinion on 2cor 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
    Gina
     
  5. J.R. Graves

    J.R. Graves New Member

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    I have really enjoyed these posts. If any of you know of any more hymns that we sing with bad theology be sure and post them.

    Someone mentioned Battle Hymn of the Republic as a Yankee hymn. I read in a civil war book a while back that the confederates had their own version with their words to the common tune. If someone knows these words, please post them.

    My favorite bad hymn is the gospel song "The ship of Zion" The 2nd or 3rd verse says "If too much fault you find, I'll surely be left behind".
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    How about Joy to the World being sung as a Christmas song. That song is about the second advent, not the first.
     
  7. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    One of my funny experiences is with a song called "Ain't it a Shame." I think it's kind of a folk song, and is not found in church hymnals. But it is in books that people sing out of around here at homecomings (most country churches in this area also have a cemetary and there is an annual event for raising funds for the cemetary upkeep). Well, we were singing this song, and it had verses like "ain't it a shame to work on Sunday" and "ain't it a shame to joyride Sunday;" then you would come to a part "when you've got Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday..." We sang through a few verses like this and then the next verse was "ain't it a shame to gossip on Sunday." When we came to part "when you've got Monday...", it hit me, and I just burst out laughing. I couldn't help it. Then there were a few more verses like "ain't it a shame to lie on Sunday, when you've got Monday, Tuesday..." Now that's some really bad theology! :eek:
     
  8. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew New Member

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    Hi,

    I just remembered another hymn whose theology I think is rather wonky: "Ye Holy Angels Bright". Verse one is us singing to angels; verse two has us singing to dead Chrsitians; verse three is addressed to living Christians; and verse four is addressed to ourselves!!! It's got to be the most heretical "orthodox" hymn there is!

    Your friend and brother,

    Bartholomew
     
  9. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew New Member

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    Oh yes... and what about Christmas carols???

    "Oh come all ye faithful" - why should I go to Bethlehem?
    "Good King Wensaslas" (or however you spell it) - well, God's not even in it for a start...
    "Oh Little Town of Bethlehem" - Singing praises to a town?
    "In the Bleak Midwinter" and "See amid the winter's snow" - I thought we all knew Jesus wasn't born in winter?
    "Away in a manger" - I bet Jesus really did cry!
    etc. etc. etc....

    Actually, can anyone think of a Christmas carol that is sound??? [​IMG]
     
  10. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew New Member

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    WELL WHAT FUN IS THAT? LOL I realy wanted to ask your opinion on 2cor 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
    Gina
    </font>[/QUOTE]Hi Gina,

    Well, I still think the song's wrong.
    "When the trumpet of the lord shall sound, and time shall be no more." Who says? The fact that we'll be changed in a twinkling of an eye doesn't mean there'll be no time after this! You can't be pre-trib or pre-mil to believe this.
    "On that bright and cloud-less morning when the dead in Christ shall rise," OK - so we ruled out the rapture - you can only sing this if you think the resurrection is at the "second coming proper". But even if it is, how can that be a "cloud-less" mornig? I mean, JESUS IS COMING ON A CLOUD! And finally:
    "When His chosen ones shall gather to their home beyond the skies," What? I think someone missed Revelation 20 and 21. My home's going to be on this earth, and then a new earth. Any time I spend in heaven will only be temporary. Actually, if you read Revelation 5:10, you've got saints in heaven singing about coming back to EARTH!

    Oh wow - this is so much more fun than getting into arguments with people about Bible versions! :D (though I suspect a whole let less useful :( )
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" comes to mind; as does "Angels we have heard on High." Of course, I am not completely thinking through all the words but these jump out as better than average, especially the first.
     
  12. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    Under the "Bad" carol Category: Away in a Manger. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    My local Christian radio station today played an old sermon by Vance Havner, who pointed out that singing hymns with GOOD theology makes liars out of many of us. His example:

    "My Jesus, I love Thee, I know Thou art mine;
    For Thee all the follies of sin I resign."
     
  14. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    That's actually bad theology.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    That's actually bad theology.</font>[/QUOTE]On what basis?
     
  16. Monergist

    Monergist New Member

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    That's actually bad theology.</font>[/QUOTE]Do you have a problem with the loving Jesus part, or the renouncing sin part? :confused:
     
  17. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    How Firm a Foundation

    I never understood what women's underwear had to do with salvation.
     
  18. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic <img src=/cc2.jpg>

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    "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" comes to mind; as does "Angels we have heard on High." Of course, I am not completely thinking through all the words but these jump out as better than average, especially the first.</font>[/QUOTE]In Hark! The Herald Angels Sing, questionable phrases or statements:

    "God and sinners reconciled."-- not then; not even yet, at least for all sinners.
    "With th' angelic host proclaim, Christ is born in Bethlehem."-- those words were not included in Luke's (or any other) account of what the angels proclaimed (actually, neither were the words in the refrain).
    "Late in time behold him come,"-- He was late?
    "Light and life to all he brings,"-- universalism??
    "Risen with healing in his wings"-- wings??

    BTW, doing a web search for the lyrics to HTHAS, the first one I found said "Offspring of the favored one," instead of "Offspring of a virgin's womb," as I have always read it from the songbook. I thought that might actually be a Mormon site or something. But the 2nd one also had it that way, then a 3rd changed that line and the previous line: "Come, Desire of Nations, come, Fix in us Thy humble home."

    It's much harder to find anything wrong with Angels We Have Heard on High since it has so few lyrics-- unless "high" is relative to the beholder and has nothing to do with dope.

    [ May 24, 2002, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: ChristianCynic ]
     
  19. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Oops …

    2 Cor 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself,

    Luke 2:8-10 10 But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. "This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger."

    NAU Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

    []/qb] 2 Cor 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, … Even I, as reformed as I am in my soteriology, understand the clear biblical teaching that that there is a universal affect of the atonement and that “all” does not always mean all men without exception.

    “Wings” is clearly a parnomasia on the idea of rising.

    On many of these older songs, there are variations in teh wording from hymnbook to hymnbook. It is particularly frustrating in a service when you have learned to sing it one way and are singing from memory when you realize that everyone else just sang a completely different line ...
     
  20. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew New Member

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    “Wings” is clearly a parnomasia on the idea of rising.</font>[/QUOTE]OK - I don't know what a "parnomasia" is (and you guys said the AV was hard to understand! [​IMG] ), but this bit of the carol is surely sound:

    "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall." (Malachi 4:2)

    Notice that "Sun" has a capital letter - so the AV translators (at least) obviously thought it refered to Jesus.

    Your friend and brother,

    Bartholomew
     
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