Standards & Convictions

thank you Helen, Sometimes we Independent Fundamental Baptists make the mistake of putting the cart b/4 the ox...we have to be very careful of the lost world only seeing our convictions, and condemnations and not seeing Christ's love in us...for example I was in a church recently where we had several visitors on a Sunday night dressed inappropriately (shorts, tight jeans, tank tops) and watched amazed as they were shunned by the people and then listened to the Pastor preach on the evilness of dressing like the world and the wickedness that this portrays...These people got up in the middle of the sermon and walked out...we have no idea if they were saved or lost and if they will ever come back to a church....convictions that are bible based are much needed to separate us from the world but lets make sure that are not all that the world sees....our main reason for being here is to take people to Glory with us...I don't have all the answers (oops, I hope i'm still IFB) but be careful of condemning others especially on the Gray areas..thank you Helen

 

We welcome visitors warmly, no matter how they may be dressed. They don't have a clue as to what our standards are so why would we expect them to come dressed properly? Our standards are for members, but are not forced on anyone.

We never force any one to adhere to standards, rather they are encouraged. Sunday school workers and children church workers ARE expected to set the example and politely remove themselves if they disagree with the standards the church holds to. this sems resonable.

No one is ever removed from the service or shunned no matter how they appear. Hey! We have had Morman missionaries attend and we welcomed them as we would any visitor. They need to hear the truth and what a blessing to see them attend so they can receive same.

 

I was real surprised, upon coming to the BB, to
find that the same terminology I thought I had
left behind when I was booted out of that church
was here. I never hear the word, standard, used
where I attend now.

Where I had attended, they had "doctrines" and
"standards." "Doctrines" were those things
spelled out in the Bible; "'standards"' were added
rules not in the Bible that someone decided were
supposed to accomodate holiness. Doctrines:
virgin birth, second coming, regeneration, restitu-
tion, etc. Standards: don't go to theaters, don't
wear jewelry, don't wear make-up, women don't
wear slacks, don't attend professional games, etc.

So what are standards in your belief?

 

You know what's funny, Abiyah? People don't really LIKE freedom! When there are not enough rules to suit them, they make up more! I have seen children do this in games and adults do this in legislatures (another sort of a game???).

I have begun to wonder if the only people who really can handle the freedom Christ gives are those who are IN Him! The born again believer has a new heart and, as he or she matures, that freedom takes on depths of meaning that I don't think are understood by others. Paul seems to have been referring to this when he referred to not offending the weaker brother in our freedom.

People say they want freedom. I think maybe they want freedom to make up their OWN rules so they can enforce them on others...

Because the physical churches today have, at least in the West, as many or more unbelievers or unredeemed as those who are born again, I think we are going to see constant rule-making "in the name of God" or "in the interest of presenting a Christian aspect" or whatever. It seems to be only in the areas of the world where there is persecution of Christians that following Christ means you MUST be born again, for there is no other way you would have the courage to face what you might have to face. I wonder if it is not mainly these people who come to understand the real meaning of freedom in Christ...

You asked about 'my' standards, I know not me personally, but to those of us contributing here in general.

Modesty in dress and behavior (I find as I age and get lumpier and bumpier I am becoming ever more modest in my dress...LOL. Not the right reasons for the increasing covering up, perhaps, unless it is a form of loving my neighbor that I don't have to disgust him ).

I try to make sure I smile at people a lot and have a nice word to say.

Diplomacy, courtesy, respect for others. Basic manners and ethics are big with me. One of the saddest things I see is that there are a number of "Christian" businesses and businessmen and women who are as unethical if not more so than anyone not claiming that name. That really sickens me.

Walking gently through the world. Taking care of things and people put in my care.

Not complaining, but learning to look up and trust.

Not hesitating to present the truth, but presenting it in the least offensive way possible, remembering that it is my character more than my words which influences people.

Finally understanding that anger itself is not a sin; it's what you do in and with it that counts.

These may sound vague, but it's how I try to run my life. I also try to keep my kitchen clean. And like my kitchen, my life is not always the way I want it to be (in terms of the above)!

 

Helen,
I was just thinking about this the other day!
If there is something that we are doing, it makes us feel good on the inside. I mean, children do this to gain acceptance from their parents in a sense. They feel if they "perform" we will love them more! Whereas, we love them unconditionally. They can do nothing to make us love them more.

I think, as Christians, we get into this "work" mentality. If we are at church 7 days a week, we are more "spiritual", if we read our bibles everyday, if we dress a certain way, if we attend a certain church, if we read a certain version of the bible, if we listen to the right kind of music, if we witness 10x a week, if we homeschool our children the list is endless. All of these things are good, and we should be doing the right things as to bring Glory to God. Yet, we cannot measure spirituality by this alone. It is by their fruit, you shall know them. We are saved and accepted by God by Grace alone. There is nothing we can add to what Jesus did on the cross.
Our righteousness is like filthy rags. We are only made righteous by the Blood Jesus shed. We cannot become more righteous by any outward appearance.
I say this, while agreeing 100% with everyone that we should be separate from the world. We should not dress immodest. We should exhibit christian charity at all times. We should not put unessessary burdens upon others.
God bless!
Naomi
great words Helen!!

 

Granny,
Nice picture ! I sent Clint a lovely picture myself, but he thought it would be a little much for this board! LOL!! (inside joke) You will have to ask him about it!

Naomi

 

Naomi, dear sister! What on earth could that mean? I ain't asking Bro.Clint nothing! hahaha [unless the Lord convicts me to]

I'm known as that little "fat-head baby"; I still have the double-chin!

 

Granny,
Well, to tell you the truth I have been a prankster the majority of my life !
I was in one of those "moods", and Brother Clint was my victim!!
I sent him a picture of this, ummmm, shall we say Lovely woman. LOL!! I asked Bro. Clint if he could please post it on the board for me, as it was one of my favorites....I told him not to bother if he thought it would make any of the brother's stumble...ha ha!! (the photo was distorted and she looked quite strange and unattractive) Someone sent it to me a while back through my e-mail!
Anyway, I had to do something with it! LOL!!!
Poor Clint wasn't sure what to think! I was laughing so hard, I was crying. (My husband thought I had went over the edge) LOL!
Naomi (thinking about my next victim)

 

I don't know, but I think standards are the interpretations of what men think the doctrines in the Bible mean. Not what they say...what they think they mean by what they say.

Why else would "be ye seperate" be transformed into the standard, don't go to the movies?

 

That is today's attitude, but truth is always truth and the Holy Spirit has been sent to lead all of us into all truth, not some designer truth made just for us.

Sure, but the Bible is not a one-size-fits-all kinda thing. If it were, we wouldn't need the guidance of the Holy Spirit to guide us in biblical matters. We're all different from each other. That's why the Holy Spirit guides people in slightly different ways. The Bible is not a static document. We need the Holy Spirit to guide us. That's why it's called the living word, not the dead word.

 

I believe standarnds and convictions comes from one desire to have personal holiness, to be liken unto what would be acceptable to the Lord if he was standing right next to you.
The more I read my Bible the more I see how God expects his people to be set apart from the world, in all we do. It consists of actions , dress, music, drink and so much more.

I guess me reading Numbers is really rubbing off, nonetheless, I think living Holy is essential.

God Bless,
Cathy

 

Since the Bible does not speak to everything that will ever be created by men, you are to use the Scripture to interpret that thing in the light of Scripture. It would have been great if God would have given us a 800 volume set that would speak to all things even that which will be invented before He retunrs. Problem is that like in all things, some folks want to OK anything that is not essential to salvation or leave it up to the whim of each person. What was one of the things that Paul fussed at the Hebrews about? They could not discern good from evil.

I am glad Cathy said holiness is essential. I may do a sermon on The Damnable Heresy of Essentials Theology. If it won't send you to Hell we don't really care about it and yet man is to live by EVERY word of God not just the essential word of God. If God speaks to it can we just say oh well, it is a gray nonessential so just everyone do what they want unles you are "convicted." You are supposed to get the conviction from the Word and the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit will never contradict the Word. Yet. few can give you a Scripture for their conviction. Their conviction is usually just how they feel about it especially if they like XYZ.

He lets each of us have our own personality and some may like stripes and some plaids, but all are to be modest and there should be a definitive standard of biblical modesty gleaned from Scripture not our feelings or culture. There should be a definitive concept of holiness since God commands all of us to be holy. He is not a wishy washy God. Our yeas should be yeas and our nays, nays. Preachers are to speak as the oracles of God. There is only one God andhecne only one thus saith the Lord on any issue. Paul set a hair standard and said this is the way the churches of God do it not just those who feel convicted.

Man, if the US military ran like people want to see God's army won, we would have been defeated by Hitler or someone else long ago. Some y'all jist don't get it. It is not placing man's burdens upon a person to seek His will in an issue and to stand united in the answer.

Can men make up weird stuff? Yes, the Pharisees did that and the lad at Hyles-Anderson who did not like denim skirts was doing something like that. Either denim is evil or it is not. If it is then all denim is wrong whether it is in a shirt, skirt, pants or book bag. If it is not evil then how I use it is my preference (although someone MIGHT find an evil use for denim) and you cannot tell me not to do it.

Just because men do at times make up weird things does not mean we just do what we feel like. Same house, same rules, not different strokes for different folks.

 

I hope this is the place to post his reply as I believe it relate to this topic. What ever happend to Biblical principles and discernment? Somewhere in the last twenty years they have been tossed out of the church.

Have God's people become so self-centered that all they can think about is their own "liberty?" The Holy Sirit is to lead us into truth because God did not write down every little "thou shalt" and "thou shalt not" in His Word. The Holy Spirit is to help us take the principles in the Bible and apply them to Holiness, not to our own pleasures.

I detect a prideful tone in those who flaunt their so called "liberty." On other posts about dress, drinking, gambling, etc., some have said they do not care what the lost world thinks and have indicated that what other christians think is not important either. It seem to me it is all about "ME." Those who hold to liberty qoute Paul to justify the way they live, yet ignor much of Paul teaches about this liberty of ours.

I Cor. 10:32-33, "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, or to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."

Also note: I Cor. 10:23-24, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Expedient means:

Apt and suitable to the end view.

What is our end view? Is it not to share Christ Jesus with a lost and dying world? Should we not do everything in our power to forego our liberty so that others may be saved?

Expedient is a Syn of Wise. It means Discerning and judging soundly concerning what is true or false. Dicated or guided by wisdom.

Edify means:

To build, to instruct, to establish
To instruct and improve, esp. by good example
To profit morally or spiritually

I would hope that Biblical convictions would become Biblical standards based upon Biblical principles. As a believer my first concern is not what makes me happy but how what I do affects others around me. Even if it is "my liberty" those inside and outside of the church must come first.

If the world sees different activities as things I should not do, then for their sake for me to live with a dress code, drinking code, or any code does not take away from my liberty. In my liberty I can choose not to be self-centered and just not do it.

Shame on us for wanting to do our own thing our own way while our Savior gave up all the splendor of Heaven to die on an old rugged cross in our place. He chose not to please Himself but do what was in our best entrest. His "liberty" was put aside for us. Shame, Shame, Shame.

I will give it all up for Christ.
Richard

 

Richard, excellent post but hold on because you may get some heat on this view of how we should lay it all down for Christ.

Murph

 

Richard, you must tick off a lot of Baptists with that concept, but you are dead on target!!!!

 

1 Cor 10:27-29
27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience? (KJV)

Note that I restrict my liberty of eating for the other guy's conscience. My liberty is not inalienable. I need to be ready to give up my liberty for another.

1 Cor 8:10-13
10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
13Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. (KJV)

What, I sin against Christ because I eat in my liberty? Yep. So if I know my attire might offend someone and I wear it anyway am I sin? Yep. If my earring and hair might offend someone should I take it off and cut my hair? Yep. Paul would become a vegetarian for life rather than offend, but we cannot give up our fads or keep our bodies covered for the love of Christ. And we wonder why we have no power.

 

Maverick ... There are not many who believe that way today. Those who do are out numbered.

Richard