This is an honest question for Calvinists...

I have no problem with double-predestination, either. To resurrect a lousy analogy -- if we deliberately burned one slice of toast and made another one to perfection, would that be unfair to the toast? What rights does the toast have over my sovereign will to make it however I want it? I do not mean to make light of the situation (pun intended) but IMO that's precisely what God is saying in Isaiah 45 -- that when you teeny weeny men can create a universe out of nothing, then you'll have room to talk about what's fair and what's not. Until then, shaddap.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. Are you asking if it is God's Spirit within us that enables us to believe? I don't know of any Scriptures that plainly state the exact mechanism by which God enables us to see/believe. But IMO you can rule out certain assumptions by comparing several passages.

For example, the following implies that one receives the Spirit because one believes, therefore one could come to the conclusion that one does not believe because one has received the Spirit. This doesn't rule out the possibility that the Spirit was involved in getting you to a point where you could believe, but it doesn't look like we actually receive the spirit until we have faith.

 

I think I understand now. I don't know of any that explicitly say so, but it has always been my assumption that this is true. I'm under this impression for many reasons, in part because the Scripture does say the truth of God is spiritually discerned, not intellectually discerned.

 

No.

The Holy Spirit uses His Word to cause us to be born again. Our being born again has to do with His action - nothing of what we do preceding it (e.g., Jas. 1:18). I would recommend that for your consideration and study of this topic that you do some searching under "ordo salutis" (the order of salvation). That might prove to be helpful to you.

Rev. G

 

Looks like maybe I still misunderstood the question. I assumed that just because we believe in our spirit doesn't mean we have that ability on our own. Perhaps I should have qualified that, but since we start from a position of being spritually dead, I didn't see how it could be on our own.

 

Preach,

I haven't fleshed out all the salient points of your question, but I will mention a couple insights that may or may not help.

First, I'm not aware of any passage that specifically teaches that regeneration makes faith possible; however, Titus 3:5 teaches that regeneration is the cause of salvation.

Second, Ephesians 2 teaches that we are dead in trespasses and sins, not just our heart or our spirit.

Third, when Romans 1 talks about darkening, the metaphor should not be mixed with life or death. I think the reference is to the degree to which the light of the gospel and the revelation of God's righteousness (context) has penetrated human hearts.

Perhaps we should think about the light caused by the dynamite (power=dunamis=dynamite) of the gospel in Romans 1:16.

 

PTW,
First of all, do I understand you as implying that Pharaoh was the "hardener" of his heart? If this is the case, I believe, if you research this, you will find that God hardened Pharaohs heart many times, well before scripture states that Pharaoh hardened his. In fact, scripture shows that God intentionally harded Pharaohs heart for HIS reasons alone; to bring Glory unto Himself! Pharaoh might have been spiritually dead as a door nail even before God hardened his heart, but for whatever reason , God continued to "harden his heart".

Also, in regards to the heart unto confession: Ezekiel 36:25 shows God "giving" the new heart unto salvation. It must be the great (transplant)physician at work.

I don't know if this is of any help......

 

Preach,

I understand your intention to explain some of the difficulties, but I think the result is that you're compartmentalizing people too much.

My definitions will not be perfect, I'm sure, but hopefully they will illustrate my point.

The spirit is the non-material person. It's really "who we are" in regards to personality, emotion, and the capacity for fellowship with God.

The heart is merely one facet of the spirit. In Scripture it seems to refer frequently to the volitional aspect of the spirit. So when we say that Pharaoh's heart was hardened--by him or by God, either way--we're saying that his will was hardened. So where is the "heart" or "will" located? In his physical heart or brain? The brain is certainly involved, but I think it's fair to say that the heart/will is a function of the spirit.

Concerning regeneration, I would argue that it is the regeneration of the spirit of a man that causes the change of his heart/will resulting in faith.

Does that help?

"No" is not an acceptable answer.

 

I agree that you are trying to make distinctions that may not really be there in scripture. Heart/mind/spirit might not be really separate--just different ways to refer to the non-body part of us.

 

PTW,
Here, in it's simplest form, God regenerates a man. He refers to the centrality of this regenerative power to rest in "the heart". That is Gods focus and that is where he targets.
It is apparent that to over examine the idea is to go above and beyond that which God has made clear...why would you want to?

Ezek 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Ezek 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Ezek 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Ezek 36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

[ November 08, 2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Scott_Bushey ]

 

Heil, mein Fuhrer.

[ November 08, 2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Siegfried ]

 

Don't worry about reconciling stuff.

Just let go and let God make you into the Calvinist he wants you to be.

[ November 08, 2002, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Siegfried ]