Saved by Baptism

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Correct me if I'm wrong, but the argument for infant baptism uses circumcision of babies as a basis.

Circumcision was used as a sign of community, just as baptism is a sign of community.

If this is true, Romans 4 is very relevent.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No circumcision is not the basis for infant baptism. It is the basis of the argument against the so called age of accountability.

 

If I've missed it then, what verses do infant baptists use?

 

Is there such a thing as an infant Baptist? Can you be Baptist if you haven't made a "decision for Jesus?"

 

Ed, the same God that came down from Heaven and died on a cross wrote in the OT, "Choose this day who you will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord (From memory not a Bible version). Sounds like "choosing" is an option doesn't it?

Also Ed, you tell me by your understanding what would happen if you shared the gospel with a bum on the street and the bum was very interested. He listens to you tell him about what Jesus did and he wants God's forgiveness. Do you run him to the nearest L. church to get a Baptism to go with his new belief, in case he gets killed on the streets, so he can go to Heaven or Is he Heaven bound when he responds to the gospel. I sometimes think L's forget that there is a commission to share the Gospel outside of the church walls.

In Christ, not H20,
Brian

 

Hi Sir Ed...I refer you to the following verse:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

Jesus says that the kingdom of heaven is filled with ones like children. Unless you have the faith of a child, and the last time I checked, children have the faith of a child, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


Acts 2:38-39 Peter said to them, repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven andyou may recieve the Holy Spirit. "For the promise is for you, for your children, and for all who are far away, everyone whom the Lord calls to him."

Isn't it a little difficult for an infant who can't even talk to repent?

 

Tulpje, You aren't serious about those verses are you? Infant Baptism out of those verses? You must be a creative thinker!!, unlike Sir Ed who is a creative stinker!!!

IN Christ alone,
Brian

 

Brian asked: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Ed, the same God that came down from Heaven and died on a cross wrote in the OT, "Choose this day who you will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord (From memory not a Bible version). Sounds like "choosing" is an option doesn't it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You lost me. Of course, we all make the choice as to whether or not we will serve God. That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you are saved though . . . unless you are Catholic. Are you Catholic? Do you believe it is our own work in making a decision of Jesus that saves us or do you believe that faith is a gift from God?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Also Ed, you tell me by your understanding what would happen if you shared the gospel with a bum on the street and the bum was very interested. He listens to you tell him about what Jesus did and he wants God's forgiveness. Do you run him to the nearest L. church to get a Baptism to go with his new belief, in case he gets killed on the streets, so he can go to Heaven or Is he Heaven bound when he responds to the gospel. I sometimes think L's forget that there is a commission to share the Gospel outside of the church walls. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If he truly is responding to the Gospel he will be baptized.

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
John 1: 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 1: 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Mark 10:39.34 And they said to him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you will drink; and with the baptism with which I am baptized, you will be baptized;

[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: Sir Ed ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Isn't it a little difficult for an infant who can't even talk to repent?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So now talking is a prereq for getting into heaven? Poor mute guys.

Let me ask this, if Baptism is something you do for God why bother? It won't do you any good, in fact it is warped, distorted, and is worth "manure" by your own sinful nature.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godmetal:


So now talking is a prereq for getting into heaven? Poor mute guys.

Let me ask this, if Baptism is something you do for God why bother? It won't do you any good, in fact it is warped, distorted, and is worth "manure" by your own sinful nature.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually Godmetal you are refering to the "filthy rags" verse that says our righteousness is like filthy rags to God's righteousness. That is exaclty right- BUT that isn't to say that God cannot work through us. In our salvation He graces us with saving faith in Him, and it is because of His grace that baptism is an act that we choose to do in obedience to God and as a public witness- as seen over and over again in the NT.

Your question is similar to asking "why bother witnessing?" Because God works through you. Alone you won't lead anyone to Christ. That isn't your job. That is the Holy Spirits job. It's your job to be a messanger, and that God will use. Being a messenger obviously doesn't save you- but does that make it worthless? No.

UNP
Adam

 

I believe I was saved in March of 2001, when I asked for God's forgiveness, thru the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I became a member of the church I belong to ( www.invitation.org ) when I was baptized. Baptism is nothing more than a public declaration of Christ. You can be saved, but not baptized. That's what our church does, anyways.

My question is this...without all the big words please, if an infant is baptized thru whatever your particular faith requires, & at 14 decides there is no reason to believe, is he/she saved ? Does a baptized infant have eternal security ?

And I'm a Baptist, and I don't know where this "age of accountability" term came from. We have baptized 3 year old children, if they profess Christ as their savior. And I believe these kids are saved, it shows in their actions & participation of the churches functions, & the fact that they will tell you...

What can wash away my sins ?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus !!!!

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Curtis ]

 

Are you trying to say that mutes can't communicate? If it is impossible to receive a communication, then I don't see how a person can be judged to sin or not.

In any case, the Bible does say to repent, and it is impossible for an infant to repent. That point I believe you must conceed.

 

I, too, was baptized in infancy, also in 1965. It was in an Episcopal church, and my parents meant well...even as a little girl I didn't think it made sense that unbaptized little children had no chance of salvation. The fear of premature death seemed to motivate parents to make the decision for us children.

I have since been baptized in our Baptist church, a very deliberate choice I made as an adult. My daughter has been baptized in a Catholic church at birth (to please the family, I admit sheepishly), and she may make the decision someday to be baptized in our church. It will be her decision, when she is ready and she knows what she is doing.
I personally consider baptism to be a symbol of an individual's commitment to Christ, I don't consider it a means of salvation.

 

Mr. Curtis asked: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> if an infant is baptized thru whatever your particular faith requires, & at 14 decides there is no reason to believe, is he/she saved ? Does a baptized infant have eternal security? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I really believe that the big problem in these discussions is the different terminology used by different denominations. For example, Baptists seem to wrap up everything involving Salvation into one little tight bundle of "gettin' saved." In reality though, I believe that is an oversimplification of the process. Take your questions for example; the infant, you, me, and everyone else was "saved" 2000 years ago by Christ on Calvary and, yes, the child has "eternal security," but, no, that does not mean he or she is guaranteed a place in heaven. The Holy Spirit has descended on that child and will never leave, however that doesn't stop that child from later on denying God.

As an example, a mother can love her daughter and will never leave her. The mother can always be there for the daughter, but the daughter can always make the choice to deny the mother.

BTW: I'm still waiting to see the verse that says Baptism is JUST a symbol.

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Sir Ed ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>In any case, the Bible does say to repent, and it is impossible for an infant to repent. That point I believe you must conceed <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it impossible? How do you know? You are assuming by your own human reasoning that an infant could not repent. No where does it say repent and then be baptised, no where does it say teach and then baptised. It is possible for repentance and teaching to follow baptism.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>That is exaclty right- BUT that isn't to say that God cannot work through us. In our salvation He graces us with saving faith in Him, and it is because of His grace that baptism is an act that we choose to do in obedience to God and as a public witness <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adam, you can't have it both ways, it is either your work or God's work. You cannot choose to do anything for God the human will is a slave to all that is evil.

Mrs Kritzer, there was no need for you to be rebaptised, your first baptism was and is quite valid. The second time you just got wet thats all. And there is no need for your daughter to be rebaptised. No offense but it looks like you are hedging your bets because you don't completely trust God.

For you guys to claim it as a symbol you ignore the promise of rebirth through Baptism.