Where does it say we go to heaven???

The earth and its works will all be burned up - (2 Peter 3) the very elements will melt.

In Rev 19 we find that "the rest" are killed by the sword that comes from Christ.

Christ takes the saints to heaven as He Promised in John 14 and He takes them via the rapture event at the FIRST resurrection (1Thess 4, Rev 20) which is the ONE before the SECOND resurrection, which is the ONE where the SAINTS are raised, which is the ONE separated from the 2nd resurrection by 1000 years (Rev 20:5).

It is all right there in the text of scripture.

Impossible to miss.

I, for one am glad that God made this point so obvious.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Jcf,
The Christian's "Heaven" is "Paradise" - "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). For a Christian to be in "Heaven" is to be wherever the Lord is.

 

That is not true.

In John 14 we see that "He goes" to heaven and THERE is where He is NOW preparing a place for us.

It is undeniable that He went to heaven and that He is currently preparing a place there IN heaven for us.

In 1Thess 4 and Rev 19-20 we see that He comes back raises the righteous dead and takes us UP TO HIMSELF.

THEN comes the 1000 years spoken of in Rev 20.

THEN AFTER the 1000 years comes the Rev 21 event where the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven.

IN that order - just as the Bible presents it.

All of it true -

That much is true.

That much is true.

And both John and Paul describe it as the appearing of Christ and the resurrection of the saints.

John calls this "THE FIRST resurrection".

And then comes the 1000 years.

And then comes the Rev 21 event when the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven.

It is all right there.

And this is why Jesus points out to us that HE IS NOT coming down here so we can receive HIM - but rather He comes back to pick us up.

Even 1Thess 4 points that out - He TAKES US UP.

We do not see Him come down to the ground until after the 1000 years.

Until then we only see that HE takes US UP!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Amen to all the above Bob!

I'm not sure this is right though. Rev 20:6 says,
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If we are going to reign with Christ for 1000 years, who are we going to reign over (with Christ)? I had always thought we would reign over those on the earth.

PlainSense

 

Well the text does not say "Who" we reign over -- but if the "we" that is doing the "reigning" is all the saved, and if the "Rest are killed by the sword that comes from His mouth" Rev 19:21 prior to the 1000 years then that leaves nobody but the dead on earth other than the "we" that are reigning.

I don't see how this results in anything like the saved ruling over the dead-unsaved even if Christ did not take us to His Father's house as promised.

(I guess you could have us ruling over the animals/creation on Earth during that time if we did not go to heaven - but that does not seem like a great outcome either given the way the birds in Rev 19 are all feasting on corpses during that time). The OT actually speaks of the earth at that time as being filled with destroyed cities - no humans alive, animals feading on the corpses, hills moving around, heaven with no light --- kind of an ugly picture to be "ruling over" IF we were not in heaven in the Father's House at that time.

So as to what we are ruling over -- I really don't know.

My "idea" is that the saints in Heaven sit with Christ and review the lives of the wicked (their precious loved ones and friends that did not make it) to see that God really is just, merciful and loving even in the case of those who do not accept the Gospel.

Remember that the "next" thing we will see after the 1000 years is the lake of fire "event" where our precious loved ones are burned "IN the Presence of the Lamb AND of His Holy ones" Rev 14:10 Rev 20:15 - only AFTER that event does Christ "wipe away every tear" Rev 21:4.

It all works just as He said - but we can't do things like say "1000 is not really 1000, years are not really years, first-resurrection is not really first" etc. It all has to stay "as is".

Christ really comes as He shows us in Matt 24, 1Thess 4 and Rev 19-20, and really raises the dead as He says in 1Thess 4 and Rev 20:4-5 and really takes us to the place He prepared for us in His Father's house as He said in John 14.

It is "all real",

In Christ,

Bob

 

Hi jcf,

The Apostle Paul discusses this in 2 Cor 5:8,

"1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."


Hi Bob,

That there are people living on the earth during the 1000 years that we reign with Christ, is seen in Rev 20:7-8 where Satan is "loosed out of his prison" to deceive those on the earth.

Rev 20:7-8,

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth...

The reason for this is that the people on the earth will only have known the righteous rule over them of Christ and His saints. To be able to really decide to follow God, people have to be tempted and then make the choice to obey God or disobey Him, which is why, of course, Adam and Eve had to be tempted.

Of course this implies that people will not die during this time. If this seems too fantastic, don't forget that people routinely lived long ages before the Flood (Gen 6). I don't think it would be too far-fetched for them to live up to 1000 years under the righteous rule of Christ and His saints. As for the terrible conditions on the earth. I would think this would stop as soon as the earth is under Christ's rule. He is, after all, in full control.

PlainSense

 

By the way, jcf, the word "should" in John 3:16 is NOT conditional, nor is it intended to be conditional. Some translations use the word "will".

Let us take your view and not build a doctrine (especially one THIS important) on a single verse.

Let us try another verse:
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Now, if you will read verse 9 I don't think you will see ".... thou shalt be saved, as long as you don't sin enough to wash off the blood of Jesus." The statement is unconditional. Your soul is assured of eternal life, at the very moment of salvation.

I'll say it like you did. This is so plain and simple, right in the Bible, I cannot understand why more people do not pick up on it. It is so simple.

Those people who are never assured of salvation must be a "sad lot". Never knowing for sure if you have said that one lie that breaks the camel's back. Never knowing if you ran that stop sign one too many times (yes, breaking the law of the land is sin).

God is capable of holding on to his people and nobody will pluck them from His hands. Isn't that a WONDERFUL thought?

Like Paul said, if we became lost again, it would be hopeless because it would require Jesus to die on the cross again.

This is the kick I get out of the Church-of-Christ who does not believe in eternal security, but believes you must be baptised (in their church) to be saved. Why in the WORLD do they not baptise those who they think become lost again?

 

Here's my penny in the alms' box,
Paul tells us, our life is hid in Christ in God. If that does not mean just what Jesus has told us Himself, that he who believes in Him has everlasting life and shall never see death, and many more such assurances, then I don't know what the promise of the Gospel to believers is!
Nowwe every day see believing Christians die. But their life, does not end there, it starts! But hiddenly, incomprehensibly, invisibly because it is hid in Christ in God! Not revealed, not to the dead conciously nor to the living. But assuredly to the living who hope on God through Jesus Christ.
In fact, the saved even now enjoys the eternal life his through Jesus Christ, and he experiences it for real, here and now, amidst the most severest testing and trial of that very life of God his now by faith.
Hell on earth to the believing child of god is heaven upon earth, already, and one will be, without tear or suffering or death or sickness.
Come, Lord Jesus, come; Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, upon this earth as it is heaven.

 

jcf,

I think you have misunderstood me. I'll rephrase my statement without using the word "Heaven".

The Christian's ultimate desire is to be with the Lord, wherever that may be and whatever the place might be called. These things are irrelevant. The physical location doesn't matter; the name of the place doesn't matter - you can call it whatever you like - if the Lord is there, that is where the believer wants to be too.

PlainSense

 

that is right,jcf.

we inherit the Earth (Matt 5:5).

the "going to heaven" hoax is satanic and pagan.


Lucifer was one of three arch-angels (lucifer, michael, gabriel); Lucifer was kicked out of heaven for rebellious sinning (rev 12:4, 13) --- and now he has us deceived into believeing our ultimate destiny is heaven (something he wants for himself).

 

Lucifer was one of three arch-angels (lucifer, michael, gabriel)

There is no where in the Bible where Lucifer or Gabriel are called arch-angels. This is an extra-biblical teaching.

; Lucifer was kicked out of heaven for rebellious sinning (rev 12:4, 13)

Simplistic explaination of Satan's fall, but biblically accurate.

--- and now he has us deceived into believeing our ultimate destiny is heaven (something he wants for himself).

Again, extra-biblical teaching. No where in any Scripture does it teach that Satan is deceiving people about heaven, this clearly borders on blaspheming God, as it was Jesus who promised us a place in heaven. Be careful not to attribute to Satan that which is from God.

Bro Tony

 

Bro Tony

give me scripture BroTony, not religious pamphlets.